Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You just told me sprinkles make up my mind lol. Jim and Richard like jelly donuts that coming from Sombody deep undercover.



🕵

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I was wrong on how UKC decided it should be done. Do yall remember the debacle when they ruled if a coon was in a tree and a possum was in a hole in the same tree? They said if the dog was barking in the hole you scored him on the possum. They backed up and reversed that one and they should this one too.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Joey maybe we need a phone number like the $$$ kc's have to call in the middle of the night when a dummy like me can't remember all this the could get it strait from the advisor then lol.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

I don't agree with the answer and never will.
From the answers on here many other long time MOH's hold the same decision.
There will be those that now will try to get a free pass if their dog gets into some ones back yard and is found treeing
on an animal cage whether there is something in it or not.

Delete and move on. I don't think so.
What really takes precedence ?
Molesting off game or farm animals in a cage as opposed to the dogs not getting their just rewards for doing so.
The integrity of allowing a dog to get away with this behavior with out penalty is just plain wrong.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

The odds of any cast ever having to address this situation (scoring an empty live trap) are so remote that it isnt really worth wasting 10 seconds on but here we are, on page 4. In today's world, most hunts are only one cast hunts so it really dont much matter how they score it long as they all are ok with it.

Tar, you spend too much time worrying about rules you are unlikely ever to use anyway. I mean if you are anywhere close to my age, the odds of you ever seeing this situation come up on an actual hunt are so astronomical that it isnt worth even thinking about.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Your right Jim but that's not the point. As far as waisted time isn't that what we are doing here anyway?

Not scoring a coon because it's not fair chase makes perfectly good sense. Deleting the same trap that is obviously empty does not. There is no fair chase issue with a empty trap, just a dog that was meseed with a caged coon to much and needs minus on a night hunt.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Ain't much life left in this ole horse, but if you got the time and still have some distaste for the creature, mise well keep beating the poor beast

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I always thought that the dog that treed the most coons was supposed to win? Why are so many people always looking for a way to minus the other dogs so that they can win?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2622

If I ever see it in a hunt, I hope the handler has a brain like his dogs and takes the whole 8 to shine and give mine time to go an tree the honey-bun bandit!!

__________________
AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH ST. JOHN'S STYLISH REX
(Ol south stylish Rebel X Janey)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

NITECH ‘PR’ REBELS STYLISH MOJA
(Ol Souths Stylish Rebel X Janey)

AFTER DARK’S PURDY PENNY
(Big $$ X Janit)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud UNION JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

Deleting a dog barking at nothing in a trap is no difference in circle or plussing a slick tree !

__________________
Delete

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I always thought that the dog that treed the most coons was supposed to win? Why are so many people always looking for a way to minus the other dogs so that they can win?

---

Well your misunderstanding of what should win finally explains a lot! The dog that's suppose to win is the dog that trees the most coons with the least mistakes. You left out the part about "least mistakes".

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
The odds of any cast ever having to address this situation (scoring an empty live trap) are so remote that it isnt really worth wasting 10 seconds on but here we are, on page 4. In today's world, most hunts are only one cast hunts so it really dont much matter how they score it long as they all are ok with it.

Tar, you spend too much time worrying about rules you are unlikely ever to use anyway. I mean if you are anywhere close to my age, the odds of you ever seeing this situation come up on an actual hunt are so astronomical that it isnt worth even thinking about.

---

Last edited by yadkintar on 03-08-2018 at 06:36 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

Off the top of my head, I don't recall specifically why we came up with delete regardless of a scent rag or nothing at all. Must have been something included in the whole discussion back then.

Seems like the other archived article had to do with a pet coon in a pen behind a barn. I'd say probably close to ten or more years ago?

My first thought was like most, and minus when it was empty. But knew we already had something in the archives and it's pretty clear that we said to delete regardless, so, nothing has changed since then.

Should it be? Possibly, but it would likely be a good idea to consider all possibilities before forming a premature opinion. Like I said, there had to be a reason/consideration for deleting even when there was nothing in it.

And really, this next to never happens so we should probably be expending our time and energy on more common matters that do need attention.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western nc
Posts: 469

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
That's one with reference to live/box traps. Thinking there might be another buried in the archives.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Allen look at it from my point of view as an old guy anything you are confident enough to call your dog on you should be willing to face the consequences of your dog not having its intended quarry and being minused even in a 1 gallon pinto bean can empty is empty!



But then on the other hand as a moh something like this comes up that your gut says ain't right that Sombody has dug up from the archives you have never heard of and it puts you on the spot I know I am not the only old guy on here that has ran hunts and competed in hunts and never had a problem just useing the rule book or card not being negative but it sometimes is overwhelming.


Or am I just over thinking things again ?

Team player tar.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

---

Originally posted by akso235
So if Allen cant remember without researching it... how is someone in the woods that has never seen an Advisor and only has a scorecard and rule book supposed to know these different rulings that take precedent over the rules.

---

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Hey it just came to me !! Problem solved !!all I got to do is call Jennifer she is always more than happy to tell me when I am wrong lol





For sure team player !!

Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5932

Fences, holes, colverts, feeders, light poles, any other object whether on the ground or in the air other than a live trap or coon cage ect ect dogs have the ability to gain points if a coon is seen therefore the ability to minus if one is not or circle if one could be there. Cheyenne pointed out that he believes the intent was that if there is no way to gain points (plus) there is nothing to take minus from, you can't minus if there was no ability to gain in the first place, to eliminate any foul play or plussing someone's pet coon hence why the situation at hand UKC had made the decision to delete and move on.
Jen

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Absolutely the best explanation of this ruling. Could not be better explained. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5932

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Absolutely the best explanation of this ruling. Could not be better explained. Dave

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2008
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 435

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Off the top of my head, I don't recall specifically why we came up with delete regardless of a scent rag or nothing at all. Must have been something included in the whole discussion back then.

Seems like the other archived article had to do with a pet coon in a pen behind a barn. I'd say probably close to ten or more years ago?

My first thought was like most, and minus when it was empty. But knew we already had something in the archives and it's pretty clear that we said to delete regardless, so, nothing has changed since then.

Should it be? Possibly, but it would likely be a good idea to consider all possibilities before forming a premature opinion. Like I said, there had to be a reason/consideration for deleting even when there was nothing in it.

And really, this next to never happens so we should probably be expending our time and energy on more common matters that do need attention.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2009
Location: Haughton, Louisiana
Posts: 118

Great, it's not in the rule book but we should know UKC'S view on this matter. Thank's

__________________
John Haun

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged