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I knew yall would bring up the hammer dogs lol. look at their peds close on top and bottom and think of the females that Dave has used.................it is still linebreeding but not tight like 408 is suggesting, or what i am getting from his post ie NO OUTCROSSING. Since my grandad is in his late 70's and been raising, breeding game chickens for 55+ years and i have had my hand in it a long long time. this is a fact when you are trying to keep them pure (which none really are to start with) you linebreed TIGHT which is uncle to nieces-aunts to nephews-grds-grdtrs- and their offspring which can be couisins and half brothers at the same time. totally different then what dave is doing.

ASK THE ENGLISH BULLDOG FOLKS ABOUT IT LOL

btw: i know 10 or 13 had a shot of smokey river in him.

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The ranch I work on you can see from my house. I use it to train all my dogs. I was going to take a few hours off of work to tree one but I would not consider it as a hunt for a guest to enjoy. The other ranches I mention are real nice and it's always a good time.

quote:

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Originally posted by Blue Iron
Why in the world would you say this then when somebody wants to "Come over and you show them on bobcats" you say you don't have anywhere to take them?

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Yes Tom, same as gamefowl. By doing so you bring faults and good traits to the surface were you can see them. Kind of odd and sad, a good gamecock is worth more than three or more hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Jones
I knew yall would bring up the hammer dogs lol. look at their peds close on top and bottom and think of the females that Dave has used.................it is still linebreeding but not tight like 408 is suggesting, or what i am getting from his post ie NO OUTCROSSING. Since my grandad is in his late 70's and been raising, breeding game chickens for 55+ years and i have had my hand in it a long long time. this is a fact when you are trying to keep them pure (which none really are to start with) you linebreed TIGHT which is uncle to nieces-aunts to nephews-grds-grdtrs- and their offspring which can be couisins and half brothers at the same time. totally different then what dave is doing.

ASK THE ENGLISH BULLDOG FOLKS ABOUT IT LOL

btw: i know 10 or 13 had a shot of smokey river in him.

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not any more they aint, or not around here anyways.

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12.5 % of the bluedogs qualified and hunting this weekend carry one or more of my crosses.


I love reading these type of threads (almost weekly) to see what the experts have to say. Carry on boys !

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quote:

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Originally posted by tony foley
12.5 % of the bluedogs qualified and hunting this weekend carry one or more of my crosses.


I love reading these type of threads (almost weekly) to see what the experts have to say. Carry on boys !

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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
Jesse,
A picture of a litter of pups will tell you lots. When the offspring is as close as possible as being identical, litter after litter, that tell you two things, one there are genes that are fixed and two it’s the sign of a very good breeder.
It’s hard to win a competition coon hunt if I do not go, titles mean nothing to me but I do respect those who go and enjoy it. This I know, what I have culled and would never consider to use in my breeding program, is being promoted and is the foundation of several of the top bluetick breeders. I also know that those same hounds are grandnite champions. You would be better served to listen and it’s ok to say you just don’t know.
I also agree with the total package and that would be a good topic for another post. "What is the total package" Jesse I could show you that too.

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Let,s get two or three notch,s on ole blues belt in terms of world champ, Then we will see if a particular bloodline play,s a significant part......Gerald

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There was a Doctor were Vaughn got some of his early hounds and some others. I have it around here somewhere in writing but offhand I do not remember there names. Vaughn and a couple of others were mixed in but they had several things that needed to be cleaned up, like blue or caulk eye, aka the merle gene and other things. My good friend took those early hounds,cleaned them up and improved them. I spent several years going to other breeders buying hounds from just about every line, but could not use them because there was too many issues and test matings failed. At the same time I had several from my friend that were far better than anything I could find. He is also a very good breeder and he taught me many things that I was missing and help me evaluate hounds, so he did most of the work.
As with any family of hounds, what they used to be and where they came from is not nearly as important as what they are and what they can do today.
JTG

quote:

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Originally posted by prostockpat

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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
There was a Doctor were Vaughn got some of his early hounds and some others. I have it around here somewhere in writing but offhand I do not remember there names. Vaughn and a couple of others were mixed in but they had several things that needed to be cleaned up, like blue or caulk eye, aka the merle gene and other things. My good friend took those early hounds,cleaned them up and improved them. I spent several years going to other breeders buying hounds from just about every line, but could not use them because there was too many issues and test matings failed. At the same time I had several from my friend that were far better than anything I could find. He is also a very good breeder and he taught me many things that I was missing and help me evaluate hounds, so he did most of the work.
As with any family of hounds, what they used to be and where they came from is not nearly as important as what they are and what they can do today.
JTG

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No way, culled everyone, Mine have brown eyes.

quote:

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Originally posted by rance56
sounds like you are a guy ormiston customer

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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
No way, culled everyone, Mine have brown eyes.

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John, one of the ranches that I hunt on has a big time coon problem.
The ranch has 18 wheeler loads full of food for deer feeders so once or twice a year I take some hounds and for the first two days hammer the coons at those deer feeders and after that I hunt for Bobcats. You are not understanding me in regards to looks as looks are secondary to performance, but I want both.
Yes, I take them to other states.

quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
Almost everything that you have posted about your dogs refers to looks. What are their strengths and weaknesses in the woods? Do you take them outside of Texas to hunt? What do you think they would do if exposed to a thick coon population?

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do any have the great charles manson hound in them? jk

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408Norville I want you to pm me on where you live!

I'm sure there are one or two that are at the world that Lee had a hand in.

If outbreeding, would you want to cross "Susie with Chico or Macho Camacho?

Bluetick people need to understand, and I said this before and got barked at, but those people in other breeds either take their top hounds to someone that knows how to finish a dog or if there going to finish them out theirselves needs to have them hounds in the woods 6-7 nights a week and take no bull from them. If those dogs aren't disaplend continually then their getting away with something. That's what a pro trainer know's and I guarentee you those from the other breeds that are training for the world know this and take advantage of it. It's not good enough if you hunt 7 nights a week if you don't control that dog's mental state.

Sorry I got off of the original question. Everyone on here has something we can gain that one little bit of knowledge from.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
Almost everything that you have posted about your dogs refers to looks. What are their strengths and weaknesses in the woods? Do you take them outside of Texas to hunt? What do you think they would do if exposed to a thick coon population?

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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
John, one of the ranches that I hunt on has a big time coon problem.
The ranch has 18 wheeler loads full of food for deer feeders so once or twice a year I take some hounds and for the first two days hammer the coons at those deer feeders and after that I hunt for Bobcats. You are not understanding me in regards to looks as looks are secondary to performance, but I want both.
Yes, I take them to other states.

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I think Joeinmo has a dog outta ol charlie manson??

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mad-Dog
Could you post a 3 or 4 gen ped on one of your dogs that is the foundation of several of the top Bluetick breeders? Just in case I don't recognize your dogs could you let me know what those top lines are? I am always interested in top reproducing bloodlines and if they have what I am looking for I will try to get some........Tim

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Hi Tim,
I must not have explained clearly. What I wanted to say is I bought hounds from just about every well known and some not so well known breeders and they did not have what it takes at least for breeding stock. Most were also missing the correct angle between the shoulder blade to the nose and back down to the front feet. Mine have it but I was able to find only one other and it was 1/2 of what I already had. The problem was the other half carried the gene for a blue eye. If you do not have that angle or close they are not able to beat feet winding a track and you need that on bobcats. I was wanting to improve what I already had and come to find out they were light years ahead of what I went out to find. So I doubled up on family breeding keeping only the best of each litter with 1/2 brother X 1/2 sister cross being the furthest apart.
The ten hounds I have now only have two names on the papers for at least 12 generations, mine and my good friend. So in all those years mine and mostly his, there has not been an outcross and there never will be.
JTG

quote:

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Originally posted by Mad-Dog
Maybe you over looked my question, I am still waiting for an answer. I am interested in what you have but would like to know more..........Tim

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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
Brock, No outcrosses here and I am happy to produce more of what I have. When you outcross you start again and is the cause of lack of improvement in the hounds we have today and I am 100% certain of that.
JTG


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Yes, it's your opinion or another who does not understand genetics and no I am not "fixing faults"

Scientist quote: in the PAST many breeders might shudder to think of mating brother to sister once. But if we select for excellent traits and discard the weaklings, I see no reason why we cannot secure strains which are not only pure for the traits in question but which will suffer no harm from inbreeding.

JTG

quote:

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Originally posted by Brock Wilson
You are also genetically "fixing" your faults also.....if you are happy with the total package you have created....you are doing exactly what you need to do! That also means your puppies should be 100% identical in performance! It is scientifically proven that out-crosses produce vigor and longevity in a blood line! That's the facts and that is the way nature was intended! Not my opinion....it's the law of evolution!

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so will you are will you not post your dogs ped?

are you interested in helping the breed?Thanks ....Gerald

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TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
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quote:

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Originally posted by 408northville
Yes, it's your opinion or another who does not understangood from each dog.....and no I am not "fixing faults"

Scientist quote: in the PAST many breeders might shudder to think of mating brother to sister once. But if we select for excellent traits and discard the weaklings, I see no reason why we cannot secure strains which are not only pure for the traits in question but which will suffer no harm from inbreeding.

JTG

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quote:

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Originally posted by everett
so will you are will you not post your dogs ped?

are you interested in helping the breed?Thanks ....Gerald

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Blueticks of the Southern States

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IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

GRNITECH pr' MAD DOG ANTi UP JOKER co winner of the all blue world championship, Sire of 2014 UKC world hunt high scoring Bluetick male(Grnitech pr' Walz Coontree Joker)

GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
2015 zone 7 championship Queen of hunt

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pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Rhino (Astro x Jude)

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