Registered: Aug 2003
Location: SE indiana
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23 days until the Fall Roundup
26 days until the Baby Stakes.



2 for 2 tonight
51 for 63 lifetime

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Keep grinding away!

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I have a half brother to her and he's as nice as any around almost 2 and is a loner all I can say is chief throws naturals ain't know other way around it

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Put Jazz in what is left of Southfork Creek tonight. It has been bone dry here and the limestone creek has not had any flow for weeks. With just pockets of water here and there tracking is tough.

There was good and bad tonight. On the initial cut Jazz flew up the creek and struck at 483 yards. She worked around for a few minutes and then let out those big located that are her signature "Park" mode. I went to her and found her treed on a walnut tree. I should have snapped a picture because it was right next to one of the many historic rock walls that populate this area. Talk about work! I've built a few on my place and they speak volumes of the work ethic of our earlier generations. I found the coon in the tree, leashed Jazz up and headed back in the direction we came. After walking a minute I unhitched her in the same direction. She worked down the creek.

As I watched the Garmin she got to 500, about the same place I cut her loose. She surprised me and just kept cruising. I fired up the fourwheeler and moved to the area. She kept moving adding another 743 yards before she opened for a total of more than 1200 yards. That is a victory and improvement.

Jazz took the track away from the creek into the hills. I moved to within 300 yards. She was working a deep wet weather runoff. At about 270 she located but did not sound right and didn't stick. She was not saying much but the Garmin showed she was hustling around trying to line it out. I was running a watch on her and she made it to 5:23 between barks at one point. Had I been in a hunt I would have been nervous. She moved on deeper into the runoff. The ridges shoot up here a couple hundred feet. After trying to take it on she swung back to the place she had located and settled into tree mode.

I walked a couple hundred yards in and found her on a ten inch maple that was forty foot tall. I can say with confidence that she was slick. I could shine it pretty good and found nothing. There was no love here. Knowing work would come early I walked her out,'loaded up and headed in. Cutting her loose here would have resulted in more frustration for both of us.
52/65 and praying for rain and cooler temps.

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I got a private message from a Hunter asking why I didn't pull Jazz off the tree and send her on to find the coon. He stated that he had always been told that this is what needs to be done when a dog slick trees. There was no mean spirit or know it all attitude about the message, he just wanted to know why I didn't send her on. I figure if he asked more may be wondering the same thing. First, I will go into more detail about what happened and then I will list my reasoning.
After Jazz located the first time, I really started watching the Garmin. I knew it was not the typical and normal locate of the confident young dog I was hunting. She had also really been putting some time between opening on the track prior to the half hearted locate. I knew then she was bogged down. Watching the Garmin I knew she was not giving up even the going got tough. She worked all the way around, back and forth and around and round. When she came back to the tree she thought she had it and was gambling.

I know from experience ther are no perfect dogs. There are also many dogs that won't take a chance and gamble a bit. I was happy to see that she was willing to take chance and roll the dice so to speak. The tracking conditions here are tough even for an older more experienced hound. I'm not making excuses but let's consider it in another way.
You coach a youth basketball team and you are down by two with ten seconds to go. Your boys bring the ball up the court, do you want them to wait for the perfect shot and let the clock run out or take chance and put the ball up? Would you want them to hold the ball and let the clock run out because they were afraid they would miss? If they shot the ball and missed would you scold them for taking a reasonable shot or would you praise them for taking a courageous chance?
Let's bring this back to Jazz. Accuracy has not been an issue with this pup. In fact she is probably too cautious at times or slow to pull the trigger. I saw this as a reasonable mistake on one hand but a victory on the other. In the Marine Corps we used to use the saying "Good Initiative, Bad Judgement". This was a way of celebrating a courageous decision but pointing out that it did not work out with the desired result. You can teach a task but developing character is more important.
When it comes to training dogs or people for that matter, one must consider the big picture. It would be easy to ruin the spirit for punishing simple mistakes. Jazz has demonstrated excellence in the accuracy department so far. So the question is do we worry about one mistake that is part of a bigger success? The answer in my mind is no.
We as trainers, make the mistake of putting these pups in a "box". If they aren't doing such and such by this age they are culls, if they make this mistake you gotta do this, if you let them get by with this even one time, you will always have problems etc. etc. I always try to see the training sessions as a whole. Weigh the goods and the bads. Break it down to its individual parts.
In the case of last night I will list the positives:
1)Hunted out 1200 yards to find a track
2) opened according to the track ( didn't bark just to bark)
3) moved the track well
4) didn't quit
5) showed courage to take the shot
The Bad:
1) she missed
So the question remains why I didn't send her on to get it right. I knew that she has worked her tail off to get where she was. I knew there would be no benefit to cutting her in that area. She had covered it thoroughly and this is the best she could do.
To wrap this up, let's go back to our basketball analogy: after the game is over do you look at your young rising star and say " hey nice effort BUT you have to shoot 100 three pointers and run a lap for everyone you miss"? Or do you say, "Hey that was close, you played your butt off. We'll get em next time!"

Thanks for the message and question and thanks for reading.

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Last edited by Rowdy on 09-09-2015 at 01:54 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by sfranklin
I have a half brother to her and he's as nice as any around almost 2 and is a loner all I can say is chief throws naturals ain't know other way around it

---

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Smokey river utchman I'll let you know as soon as I get home.. His mom is off bawl creek blue banger and Okie's blue bell star ...banger is off smokey river chiefs BL stormy/ coats bawl creek blue Lucy and star is off utchman blue hornet / blue Bell heavy utchman and Smokey river on bottom

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rowdy
[B]I got a private message from a Hunter asking why I didn't pull Jazz off the tree and send her on to find the coon. He stated that he had always been told that this is what needs to be done when a dog slick trees. There was no mean spirit or know it all attitude about the message, he just wanted to know why I didn't send her on. I figure if he asked more may be wondering the same thing. First, I will go into more detail about what happened and then I will list my reasoning.
After Jazz located the first time, I really started watching the Garmin. I knew it was not the typical and normal locate of the confident young dog I was hunting. She had also really been putting some time between opening on the track prior to the half hearted locate. I knew then she was bogged down. Watching the Garmin I knew she was not giving up even the going got tough. She worked all the way around, back and forth and around and round. When she came back to the tree she thought she had it and was gambling.

I know from experience ther are no perfect dogs. There are also many dogs that won't take a chance and gamble a bit. I was happy to see that she was willing to take chance and roll the dice so to speak. The tracking conditions here are tough even for an older more experienced hound. I'm not making excuses but let's consider it in another way.
You coach a youth basketball team and you are down by two with ten seconds to go. Your boys bring the ball up the court, do you want them to wait for the perfect shot and let the clock run out or take chance and put the ball up? Would you want them to hold the ball and let the clock run out because they were afraid they would miss? If they shot the ball and missed would you scold them for taking a reasonable shot or would you praise them for taking a courageous chance?
Let's bring this back to Jazz. Accuracy has not been an issue with this pup. In fact she is probably too cautious at times or slow to pull the trigger. I saw this as a reasonable mistake on one hand but a victory on the other. In the Marine Corps we used to use the saying "Good Initiative, Bad Judgement". This was a way of celebrating a courageous decision but pointing out that it did not work out with the desired result. You can teach a task but developing character is more important.
When it comes to training dogs or people for that matter, one must consider the big picture. It would be easy to ruin the spirit for punishing simple mistakes. Jazz has demonstrated excellence in the accuracy department so far. So the question is do we worry about one mistake that is part of a bigger success? The answer in my mind is no.
We as trainers, make the mistake of putting these pups in a "box". If they aren't doing such and such by this age they are culls, if they make this mistake you gotta do this, if you let them get by with this even one time, you will always have problems etc. etc. I always try to see the training sessions as a whole. Weigh the goods and the bads. Break it down to its individual parts.
In the case of last night I will list the positives:
1)Hunted out 1200 yards to find a track
2) opened according to the track ( didn't bark just to bark)
3) moved the track well
4) didn't quit
5) showed courage to take the shot
The Bad:
1) she missed
So the question remains why I didn't send her on to get it right. I knew that she has worked her tail off to get where she was. I knew there would be no benefit to cutting her in that area. She had covered it thoroughly and this is the best she could do.
To wrap this up, let's go back to our basketball analogy: after the game is over do you look at your young rising star and say " hey nice effort BUT you have to shoot 100 three pointers and run a lap for everyone you miss"? Or do you say, "Hey that was close, you played your butt off. We'll get em next time!"

Very well put more hunters should take the whole scenario into account like this before passing judgement. Thanks for passing along your experience and wisdom. I enjoy this thread a lot and I know many other hunters do as well.

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Just a quick update. Especially since I have been so windy the last few posts.

We got a nice steady rain here this afternoon. Darkness fell and I hunted Jazz from the house here. Loaded her on the 4 wheeler and drove up to the pond. There were a few deer up there and I cut her right through them. She moved on around the pond on the woods side and struck hard. She drove the track 937 yards and hit the wood with a big powerful locate. I fired up the quad and headed to the top. She was freed over the top on a familiar tree. She had treed a coon here a couple of weeks ago on the exact same tree. This is a big pignut hickory about 30 inch base and 60 ft tall with a good spread up top. Since I treed here before and found the coon, I looked in the same place again. Yep same place. Going to call this coon Piggy. He and Jazz are getting to know each other.
Walked one minute and unsnapped the leash. Jazz went 83 yards and struck again. Short track and located and chopped hard. I waited the five before starting to her. Got to Jazz and she was parked under a 30 inch Red Oak. I belted a few notes on my Bad Man Squaller and the coon looked right at me.
Made it back to the quad and moved to the other side of this big tall Ohio County hardwood ridge and cast Jazz down a ravine away from the trail. She was working only 80 yards out but not opening. After a minute she opened with a big locate and locked it down. After letting her tree and Sending a text to Steve Bankston (Bogue Chitto Blues) bragging that Jazz was 2/2 on the night, walked in and found Jazz on a 10 inch ash tree. A quick look and I did not see a coon. That's what I get for bragging. I stepped up the hill and hit the Bad Man and two wide eyes looked right at me. Threw the bright light on him and could see the whole coon. I was twenty steps off the trail I rode in on.
Good night of hunting here. The rain was a welcomed blessing. Jazz worked faster but opened on the ground more than what I really like. I guess she was thrilled to be getting snout full of coon scent!

Thanks for reading and thanks for the comments I do enjoy sharing our progress.

55/68

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I have been busy busy busy. Jazz and I have been hitting it getting ready for the Baby Stakes and I have three hunts to update. They have all been very similar and a little frustrating. It is terrible dry here, probably pretty normal if I lived in Oklahoma. You all would call this your wet season. Lol.

Any way tracking has been tough. The corn fields and woods are drying up. Leaves are falling and we are in a transitional period for the woods and Jazz is trying to sort it out. She is firing out good. I have been trying to dry hole her to make her go hunt a track. The problem is she can find one within a couple hundred yards. Her track speed looks awesome some times and then pathetic at times. She can scorch it at around 7.5 mph and then slow to 3.5-4 when she gets bogged down. I have been hunting her in some cut over that is wicked thick just so she has to really work and use some brainpower to sort out tough tracks.
She continues to tree coons but not as easily as she was. Tracks are tougher and she is locating a little more and then checks. I am going to have to be careful calling her on a locate, that's for sure. For now, I am keeping an eye on this and considering her age, the season change and tracking conditions for the uncertainty. What I really think is going on is she is trying to run tracks, heads up and trying be quicker. This will be a good thing if she can learn the skill. I have been marking the areas and walking in to ensure she is not leaving coons. So far she has not and takes a track on. If I find she is leaving coons, we will get serious.
Out of her last ten trees, I have found the coon 8 times. She ran one track she did not finish. I have ran coons in the ground here plenty of times and dug a dog out of the ground once. Jazz has never stayed on a hole. Can't say for sure Jazz ran one in the ground but after hunting 20 years in this spot and the fact that Jazz is not typically giving up, my best excuse is it went in the ground. Lol.
63/78 is the new total. Treeing 100 coons before one year old is my goal with Jazz. Maybe more important to me then competition hunts.

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Jazz and I hooked up with a local guy to get her more experience with other dogs. This Walker gyp was perfect, she is an energetic little tree dog. Even though the little dog got under a coon she sucked in and covered Jazz three times. Jazz moved tracks good tonight and treed without a lot of checking and located. We had to do a little work on tree manners. The Walker gyp liked to run the tree so it was great exposure. Jazz would back off but wouldn't quit. She did face bark a little and I would correct and let her up to reassure her. By the end of the night she was more comfortable. She will see plenty of these types of dogs in the hunts so it is best to deal with it now.

I found two of the three coons in Jazz trees. One was big oak in heavy covert hat I couldn't shine. She hunted out good, stuck with tracks, recovered from losses and looked pretty good all the way around. I was happy with the way she was independent and stayed focused. But I was really happy that she put it on a three year old walker gyp. LOL!!!

Thanks for reading.
65/81

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Tonight's update: DRY!!!

Worked with Jazz today in the yard today. Tied her out and gave her a bone and let a pup out. Jazz tried to be possessive of the bone. I stepped in and let her no there was only one alpha in this pack. By the end of the session it was all fun and games.

Hooked up with the local guy and his walker gyp. I threw I a twist tonight. I cut Jazz loose and we left the Walker in the box. I cut her towards a cornfield. Jazz hunted .6 miles and never hit a track. Watching her on the Garmin she worked the edges like a pro. I caught her up and we moved to a creek bottom.

Within 150 Jazz hit a track. She was driving the track up a dry branch. I checked the Garmin and she was averaging 5.8 mph. She took the track another 463 and slammed it into tree mode with a big locate. I went to the tree and handled her. I called my buddy and told him to bring his gyp out and turn her loose. Jazz was belly up on the tree when the gyp got there, one slight face bark got her a loud correction. I handled the gyp and let them tree together. The Walker was running the tree, which wouldn't normally tolerate but it was perfect for this situation . Jazz figured out she could sit back or move on the tree and everything would be ok. They treed together for several minutes with no problems.
Jazz continues to be one of the easiest young dogs I have ever had. If there is a problem it doesn't take much correction for her to catch on. I am not saying this issue is resolved, I just have to be consistent and continue to polish this diamond in the rough.
Thanks for reading and good hunting to you.
Oh yeah, she had the coon about 2/3 up in a red oak.
66/82

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You know you have a good hound when they can tree coon night after night as dry as it is over most of this country. And Jazz is super nice pup to still be getting under the meat under the conditions she has to work with. You truly have something special in her. Mr. B. H. came with his pup and we dropped BO and the pup in 4 different locations and BO treed twice, one coon and the other a miss I believe. Very Dry and didn't hit a track worth a darn. I thought we were getting some rain Monday but they have since took it out of the forecast, looks dry the next 10 days.
Keep working Jazz, she is going to be as ready for the Baby Stakes as any pup ever was, Take Care and Good Hunting!!

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Thanks Steve. We maybe have a chance for a little rain today. We need about a three day soaker. Soon I hope.

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I am always amused when I see people comment on this board about Indiana being all flat, easy walking and no rough country. When I go out of state and meet hunters, they always comment about Indiana being flat. Here are some pictures of the flat land I hunt.




All easy walking

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09/20/15

Not going to be giving every detail of every hunt from here on out until there is a GNC title in front of Lotsagrit Wild N Blue Jazz. Thanks everyone for keeping up with our progress.

My intention was to write journal of training a pup from beginning to whatever end. I never held anything back. Good or bad I wrote it down. I hope Jazz has encouraged some of you. I hope maybe I offered some bit of useful advice along the way.

Jazz and I hunted with Ken Cone and Sparky. Jazz split twice with 2 coons on 2 trees.

68/83

BTW Lotsgrit Blue Bogee from Steve Bankston will be here in about a month and we'll have plenty to talk about.

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Looking forward to the trip, and I like the name, BOGEE! Jazz has set some High Standards and we all use our best as a measuring stick, that's how it should be if we want to continue to improve the breed. Demanding more from each one that we choose to work with will help us recognize the special ones like Jazz that are worthy of all the time we sacrifice and enjoy with our beloved hound. Thanks for choosing Bogee!

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Yes Steve I was trying to come up with something to represent and give credit to Bocephus, Bo and Bogue Chito. Bogee as in an unidentified threat. Example: "Captain we have two Bogees coming in low and fast from the west."

Kinda Top Gunnish. How bout some updated pics.

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Here ya go Chris, took this picture this morning right before I wormed them for first time. They are starting to Blue Up and if you pull the hair back its dark down in there so two weeks from now they won't look like Walkers anymore. The one next to last on the right with the black spots, look how big he is. Him and a big female are like bull dozers when its feeding time they root anything in their way out of the way. Be glad when they are 4 weeks or older so I can see how they respond to the outdoors and which ones are the boldest and fearless, that's the kind I like. I loved the movie Top Gun so when I saw you were going to call him Bogee I knew what you were talking about. Its a different name that I've never heard hung on a hound and that's what makes it stand out.

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Hit the desert of Southeast Indiana. We have had less than an inch of rain in the last month. We had a year like this a couple of years ago. Crops dried up, farmers harvesting and the woods are dry. I am getting plenty of fire wood out though.

Jazz put three up tonight on three trees. First two didn't have much track to them. The third was a short hot track along a cornfield. I can't wait for better conditions to see how pushing through this dry spell influenced her tracking.

We're still focused on 100 coons before her first birthday on 11/16/15. She is up to 71 on 86 trees.

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Jazz is figuring out the dirt tracking. Maybe some rain coming on Saturday. Doing a rain dance.

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Keep up the good work buddy!
you'll hit 100 before their 1st birthday no problem


My female is going tomorrow to my buddy. He's gunna run her for 30 nights, if not longer into the hide season. If she don't ever make a coonhound, she'll defiantly make a tom cat hound. She was smoking a tom cat track I turned loose in front of her yesterday evening in a small 2 acre cornfield

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Chris,
Just remember where you got this pup. Heehee

I have enjoyed reading this article very much
A lot of experience in it.
I have learned a lot. I've hunted for 35 years now. This has been very helpful.
Thanks a lot for putting this together

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Man, I think I'll send all my pups up there when it is -10 degrees outside from now on. That was a nasty stretch of weather we were having. I am glad you have been reading. You just never know who reads these ramblings. There have been around 10,000 views on it. I never wanted to write it like I was bragging. The intent was to report it all good or bad. I also feel that some of us wannabes read some of this stuff on the boards and think that either everybody is a liar or that everybody else has a great dog except me. It seems like we don't hear about the growing pains it takes to make a great one. I don't know if I will have great one but it has been fun working with this one.

I am going to continue to update this thing. I enjoy the writing and sharing. I hope everyone keeps following along.

08/25/15
Took Jazz out for a short one. Radar was showing rain moving in with some heavy stuff in it. I cut Jazz loose towards a pond surrounded by hardwoods. Jazz got struck pretty quick. She dropped a locate but I could tell she wasn't right. She spent ten minutes trying to figure it out. I finally had enough and walked in and ran her out of there. Watching the Garmin, I could tell she was just spinning her wheels. She wasn't opening much at all, just mopping the track. Once I got her out of that small gulley she picked up the track and scorched it for 167 yards and slammed a tree. She made it clear she wasn't going anywhere. I let her tree for ten minutes and walked in to her. I handled her, hit the Bad Man Squaller from my buddy Hoop Franklin and found two looking down. If you all are looking for a great Squaller check out the Bad Man. I have been finding coins like a bad man. Look for Tater's Feed and Supply on the classified page or Facebook.

The wind was picking up and it was spitting rain so I decided to pack it in for the night. I checked the rain gauge in the morning. It didn't rain enough to fill a thimble.

Thanks for reading. If you have been following along and have t done so, introduce yourself.

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Made four trees with Jazz last night. I found 3/4. The third treed was a real live slick tree. Small locust that was 25 feet tall. If he was there he was field mouse size. I cut her right off the wood. Jazz must have been insulted that I even doubted her because she put me in strange country after that. She went on down the creek hit a dry branch and hit the hill country. She never opened. I walked back to the truck. As I was getting in I heard her open to the southwest. A quick check of the Garmin showed her at .12 on top to the southwest. I drove around and listened to her finish with a big locate. She treed near a pond on a piece of property that I had never been on. I walked to the other side of the pond and hit the Bad Man Squaller and found the coon. We packed it up and went to the house.

I haven't really kept track of the legitimate slicks but they have been very few. One thing that I have always wanted out of her was more hunt. She gave it to me tonight. I went home happy in spite of the slick.
77/92

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Chris Powell
Houndsman XP Podcast

Last edited by Rowdy on 09-30-2015 at 04:12 PM

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