Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

it seems pretty obvious that the track is being bred out of the hounds and replaced with tree.... hince silent and tight mouth hounds... sure they can win when they dont know how or cant run anything but a smoking hot track... but think where it will end up if people just keep breeding this way.... keep them balanced and still create a winner

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
Posts: 3698

quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
And if all we wanted is to tree we would go squirrel hunting. but coon hounds are supose to do both. That doesn't mean they have to be slow about it. Tracking conditions and type of coon is what determins track speed. That and quality of hound. Now if that is all your hound can do is run threw the woods till it finds a hot track and put it up quick then that is what it has to do. But in thin coon a hound like that is going to have problems. It does make a dog look fast when the track isn't over 100 yards long when it strikes the coon.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 407

If a dog opens and put a tree on the end he or she is not a babbler,if a silent dog falled tree and the handler called him struck and treed at the same time he needs to be warned,then be scratched for lying about strike points.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
And if all we wanted is to tree we would go squirrel hunting. but coon hounds are supose to do both. That doesn't mean they have to be slow about it. Tracking conditions and type of coon is what determins track speed. That and quality of hound. Now if that is all your hound can do is run threw the woods till it finds a hot track and put it up quick then that is what it has to do. But in thin coon a hound like that is going to have problems. It does make a dog look fast when the track isn't over 100 yards long when it strikes the coon.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
Posts: 3698

quote:

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Originally posted by II Chance
I think a dog should open the second he smells coon not untill but as quick as, then drift and mounth using his thoughts to catch that coon. Gann's Finisher Style.

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

so your saying my dog that locates with 3 long bawls turns over to a chop treed should be scratched a dog can't open on track if coon hasn't been on the ground since lastnight my dog is open but trees many layups i find it hard to believe that you can know a dog in two hours of hunt time to say he is dead silent and scratch him thats why i don't do many hunts to scratch a dog for being silent is bullcrap i don't like silent dogs myself but using a bs reason to get him out is what happens i've seen dogs win with quilles in there face now that dog should be scratched plain and simple but is not go figure

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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L. Lyle you may be surprosed what all we would agree on if we knew each other better. This thing is just made for wise cracks and bickering. LOL

I have found being a barber and talking to the same people over and over and getting to know them better and better. When you learn why they think the way they do even if you still dont agree with them you understand them better and like them better. ( :

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Last edited by Okie Dawg on 10-20-2011 at 04:08 AM

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 407

Amen own Ganns Finisher style,he had good nose with coon sense in him,could move a track with a wide open mouth when he was young.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 407

If you go by the rules your going to hurt somebody feelings,the best way is not to have buddys in a hunt, and congratulation to the winner at the end of the hunt.

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quote:

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Originally posted by josh
It is a breed standard that hounds open on track......There is no doubt in my mind thats where the rule stems from.

The problem with this rule is defining a silent dog.....VERY VERY few hounds are 100% silent IMO.

Bou't as many get scratched for it as there are dogs minused for babbling so I'd say its a wash...

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Registered: Aug 2005
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Posts: 407

There are rule for babblers in there to.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
so your saying my dog that locates with 3 long bawls turns over to a chop treed should be scratched a dog can't open on track if coon hasn't been on the ground since lastnight my dog is open but trees many layups i find it hard to believe that you can know a dog in two hours of hunt time to say he is dead silent and scratch him thats why i don't do many hunts to scratch a dog for being silent is bullcrap i don't like silent dogs myself but using a bs reason to get him out is what happens i've seen dogs win with quilles in there face now that dog should be scratched plain and simple but is not go figure

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location: Selmer Tn
Posts: 626

I would like to say I really like you guys and it has been fun reading your posts. Maybe we will all cross paths in the woods someday, and maybe by the time we meet I will own a dog that will open on track enough to not consider him silent and one that will stay on the tree till I get there. Gone for today but not for good. See ya tomorrow about 9 am central time.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by Rocketman55
I'll pray for all my brothers out there that only want to see the meat on the limb and seem to feel its not important how ole silent got there, but what is important is that he got there first.

You see, those of you that think that way have completely been thrown for a loop when it comes to understanding the intent of our founding fathers that originally developed the night hunt (HONOR) rules.

You see it was their intent to develop a set of rules that payed respect to the coon being treed as much as it did to developing a Hound, (using hound traits) that could consistently tree a coon while giving that coon a SPORTING chance to fool the hound and get away.

That is why it is required for a hound to open on track, so that the coon will know the hound is chasing it, and give that coon a fair chance to pull some tricks to fool the hound before the hound can catch it. Its not very sporting to use the SUPRISE attack of a silent trailer to force the coon up the nearest tree before it even known the hound is in pursuit.

That would be like some guy coming up and sucker punching you right in the nose and then tell you he wants to fight. Not very sporting but yes it is effective in giving you the advantage in winning the fight.

For all you young Whipper Snappers the term I am referring to are (THE SPORTING RULES OF A FAIR CHASE) I am sure many (if not all hunters under the age of 40) have never heard of this term but that is why a Hound is required to open on track.

If you still don't understand why a hound is required to open then I don't think I can do anything more to help you understand why the silent trait is such a significant fault.

Good Luck to you all and enjoy your season no matter what type dog you like to follow!!

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
it seems pretty obvious that the track is being bred out of the hounds and replaced with tree.... hince silent and tight mouth hounds... sure they can win when they dont know how or cant run anything but a smoking hot track... but think where it will end up if people just keep breeding this way.... keep them balanced and still create a winner

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Last edited by gfults on 10-20-2011 at 05:58 AM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
And if all we wanted is to tree we would go squirrel hunting. but coon hounds are supose to do both. That doesn't mean they have to be slow about it. Tracking conditions and type of coon is what determins track speed. That and quality of hound. Now if that is all your hound can do is run threw the woods till it finds a hot track and put it up quick then that is what it has to do. But in thin coon a hound like that is going to have problems. It does make a dog look fast when the track isn't over 100 yards long when it strikes the coon.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

quote:

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Originally posted by gfults
Well if thats your argument, then what were the founding fathers thinking when they wrote the rules about minusing and scratching dogs for treeing possums?? What we call coonhounds were originally thought to be tree hounds first. Therefore treeing possums is as natural as treeing coons to these dogs, yet our founding fathers saw fit to punish these dogs for what came as a natural act. In turn came breaking these dogs of natural acts which usually comes in the form of physical discipline! Thats like breaking a baby from farting!! It only takes 1 bark from a dog on trail to not be silent. Is 1 bark enough of a head start warning for the coon to satisfy our founding fathers?? I feel like we pay a ton of respect to the coon considering the coon is not harmed. And remember, with all due respect to those founding fathers, they were not God, but men no different than you and I, and they could have been wrong way back then just as easy as they couldve been right!

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location: tennessee
Posts: 2441

i agree with gfults, some of the coldest nose dogs ive ever seen was silent on track, and i much rather my dog tree a grinner than slick on a coon. i dont know who our founding coon hunting fathers were and i have nothing against them but if they were here now and they say a silent dogs are culls, i would ask them that coon hes ah treeing up is it a cull to? lol i think ive hunted long enough to maybe know what a coon dog is and the way i got it figured out is the dog that you see the most coons with is usually the best coon dog. i wonder when folks had to hunt to help feed their kids back years ago what kind of dogs did they hunt? i would think it would be the dog that showed them the most coons, i dont think they were to worried if their dogs didnt bawl and howl on track lol.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

quote:

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Originally posted by skeets
i agree with gfults, some of the coldest nose dogs ive ever seen was silent on track, and i much rather my dog tree a grinner than slick on a coon. i dont know who our founding coon hunting fathers were and i have nothing against them but if they were here now and they say a silent dogs are culls, i would ask them that coon hes ah treeing up is it a cull to? lol i think ive hunted long enough to maybe know what a coon dog is and the way i got it figured out is the dog that you see the most coons with is usually the best coon dog. i wonder when folks had to hunt to help feed their kids back years ago what kind of dogs did they hunt? i would think it would be the dog that showed them the most coons, i dont think they were to worried if their dogs didnt bawl and howl on track lol.

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Last edited by l.lyle on 10-20-2011 at 09:05 AM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
Possum treeing and bringing hogs to bay and putting armadillos to a hole and digging up ground moles ; all the same. They be some gamey dawgs. I like 'em all . I even like bird dog pups pointing flutterbys butterflies.
Who said it only takes one bark from a dog not to be silent? Not me , get that straight right here and now. Maybe you interpret UkC Rules to say that , so live by them rules and sell me your dog and see what you get.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
Well I betcha ole Daniel Boone would have had no use for a curent open trailing Walker that had to be tracked down by a beep beep nor an GPS. Gone so far he was out of hearing and therefore might as well be silent. Nor would he have had any use for a dog that ain't said a word and bees all excited barking everybreath treed once he every decides to open his stupid mouth on the next over mountain ridge (on a possum) LOL LMBO. I can see old Daniel now when he has to sniff down a silent dog he can't hear to cover two mountain ranges to get in hearing to get hisself a great big old possum LOL Go Kid Yourself.

Skeets , tell me true. How do you know that some of the coldest nosed dogs you ever saw were silent ???? I am trying my very best how you have ever SEEN a SILENT Cold nosed dog actually working on the ground. Not in your head . Anybody can dream that kind of stuff up.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
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quote:

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Originally posted by gfults
I didnt say you said it only took one bark for a dog not to be silent! I said it. Lets get that straight right here and now! I didnt necessarily mean thats how I interpret the rules neither. But it would be awful hard to get a dog scratched for being silent thats opened on track even if it was only 1 bark.

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Troy NC
Posts: 2288

your going to be hard pressed to find a stone silent dog. Even my curs will open here and there. but they are faster even on bad tracks because they are running, working and thinking instead of barking. It is proven that all dogs have to slow down to bark and many stop completely. I still hunt hounds, but i don't want a full open bark every breath type of hound. You will also see as a dog gets older, and wiser he will tighten up on the ground. This is the reason you see the cream rise to the top in lots of the bigger hunts. Yes a young dog will win from time to time, but a dog with age seems to do better the majority of the time. I have always hunted to tree coon first, trophies and titles second. A dog that barked 3 to 4 times on ground and fell treed is a dog that is hard to beat. They seem more independent, but they are really hard to keep up with for the other dogs. but this thread is about stone silent HOUNDS. I have yet to see one in 27 yrs of hunting. All i have been with will bark some here and there. Hardwood Dan is a good example. He opened on track just enough, he was a get in there drift a bad track and make it look better than it was kind of coon dog. He could get treed with the meat, with out having to bark all the dang time.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

i may have misled some people... by no means do i want a dog to open everytime his feet hit the ground... i want him moving forward enough you know he has went somewhere between every bark i just dont want stone silent.... lots of tracks my dogs are very tight on and some tracks even silent but its the track making them that way not the way they are bred... hot tracks they will be screaming like they looking at it... just what i like and hunt

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 806

I LOVE IT!! WERE TALKIN DANIEL BOONE NOW!!

im pretty sure daniel got tired of treein on dens so he ate all his boo-hoo dogs because they were starvin him to death.

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