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The judge didn't get him scratched another handler did by bringing it back to the panel with a question also if no dog had opened before he cast her he's going to get scratched like it or not

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The judge didn't get him scratched another handler did by bringing it back to the panel with a question also if no dog had opened before he cast her he's going to get scratched like it or not

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I watched the video and what really happened was the guy lied, replay clearly showed that he did not say extension. I detest lying be it in a man or dog, he deserved to lose his shot. Call it good sportsmanship if you want to, but the guy cheated. He may have thought he called for an extension of time, but he clearly did not. Violating a rule intentional or not is definitely not an excuse, why have RULES if they are not enforced? What rule do you enforce, what makes one rule less important than another rule? The argument of no foul no harm does not merit ignoring a RULE. We can say we would do this or that, but what we do may not be what we think we would do. Winning a World title and 10K by the RULES is nothing to be ashamed about. We often try and measure our corn in another man's bushel right or wrong. Dave

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John Smith
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Y'all act like this has never happened before. Does no one remember when the "no squalling" rule was in effect? How many handlers were scratched for accidentally blowing their squaller just once or twice because they were nervous and not thinking? How many were allowed to apologize and not scratched by the other hunters.

How many of y'all have been scratched by a judge who lagged behind and let handlers get to tree before the Judge? How many have gotten to a tree before the judge and only been cautioned not to?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
If one lied then they both lied. The point is that there was no harm, no foul, just miscommunication. It didn't affect anything. I'm just saying that your analogy of what everyone would do in that type of situation is incorrect in that there are different points of view from different people. Obviously in the cast of this hunt there was at least one handler who chose to pursue the scratch and it was his right per the rules to do so.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
this isn’t close to the squalling scratch. The squaller could have influenced another dog. This situation was a misunderstanding between hunter and judge (of which he agrees and did NOT scratch the dog) which resulted in the dog being loose maybe 3 seconds and had absolutely no influence on anything or anybody whatsoever. I can’t believe this kind of tactic was allowed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Most of the time, the squalling scratch did not influence another dog. I have seen handlers scratched for just clucking or blowing one time and then realizing their mistake and saying that they were sorry. I have seen 2 of the other handlers say no harm, no foul and agree to let the handler continue. But then the 4th handler insisted that he was scratched so he was scratched. Now I know good and well that I am not the only handler that has seen this happen.
Now for the record I have never scratched a handler for such an infraction and I have given several of them warnings. If I had been in the World cast, I would have been fine with letting her hunt. But I can also understand why she was scratched. Once the no call was questioned, there was no other recourse.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
this isn’t close to the squalling scratch. The squaller could have influenced another dog. This situation was a misunderstanding between hunter and judge (of which he agrees and did NOT scratch the dog) which resulted in the dog being loose maybe 3 seconds and had absolutely no influence on anything or anybody whatsoever. I can’t believe this kind of tactic was allowed.

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What if no one has responded due to legal reasons

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It's really sad that this thread has 8600 plus views and over 100 replies, while a thread congratulating the World Champion winner has 3 replies and 1500 plus views. What does this say about human nature? SMH unreal is all I can say. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 09-30-2021 at 05:40 AM

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It just shows that only 3 people agree with the "win by any means" mentality. Everyone says that UKC hunters think that it is all right to scratch the other dogs/handlers instead of beating them but apparently they don't. Dave, I guess that you are the only one.

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9. JUDGES
(a) Judges are picked by the host clubs because they believe them to be honest
and capable of keeping score just as it is given to them by handlers. They will
show no favors to any dog or hunter and will inform handlers of score and
time recorded, if requested. Authority of the Judge begins when he is officially
designated and receives the scorecard. The judge shall be in control of the cast

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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It just shows that only 3 people agree with the "win by any means" mentality. Everyone says that UKC hunters think that it is all right to scratch the other dogs/handlers instead of beating them but apparently they don't. Dave, I guess that you are the only one.

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Seeking Soli Deo Gloria through the hounds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It just shows that only 3 people agree with the "win by any means" mentality. Everyone says that UKC hunters think that it is all right to scratch the other dogs/handlers instead of beating them but apparently they don't. Dave, I guess that you are the only one.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 10-01-2021 at 09:10 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Lol. Mr. Lambert, you of all people should know better than to make such a FALSE statement, "Winning by any means" suggests wrong doing on one's PART. Winning by the RULES is not only honest but is expected of every handler in every cast that they go by the RULES. We may not like the results in all cases, but definitely should not cry foul or suggest wrong doing. Your statement is not only FALSE, but TAINTS everyone that WINS by applying ALL of the RULES and not just the RULES we like. Emotions should NEVER take the place of FACTS and FACTS are this HUNT was won by the RULES. DO NOT hate the MESSANGER, HATE THE MESSAGE. Do not hate the handler, HATE THE RULE. Dave

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Nathan Phenix
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Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
Dave what rules was used to scratch the female and how was it applied? I haven’t heard any facts from anyone beside a guide who told what he could but was limited do to his location to cast and judge at time of call.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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We all know that UKC's decisions are final. And UKC has stated that they won't provide full disclosure about the events that transpired on the final cast of the 2021 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

Therefore, I suggest that we avoid all this animosity and eliminate the the competition portion of the 2022 UKC World Hunt and provide all that qualify a participation trophy and the title of 2022 UKC World Champion.

There ya have it!
Politically Correct and Satire at its finest!
Paul

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Before I state the obvious I appreciate al the work that has went into all the works the the ukc does I have always hunted ukc and will continue to . The only thing I realize is this the ukc hu ting department is funded by hunters withought which none of their works would be possible . As in other words we are all basic share holders and deserve a true honest answer. No names need be involved just a true statement from someone who knows the real facts. Not to beat anyone down again need no names just a this is what happend and nothing else no side stories no hear say just a flat hear is the exact of what happend. And the reality is we have a world ch that isn't getting the attention he deserves becouse of this.

Last edited by treedog2345 on 10-01-2021 at 05:41 PM

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Oh my goodness, I thought that it was all about the competition. Why are they called " competition hunts". The interweb and pleasure hunters keep talking about the "best dog". I guess that y'all have never hunted in a competition hunt. Here is a news flash they compete against each other to see who wins. The dogs don't compete. The dogs are just out there trying to tree a coon. The handlers are competing to see who wins. That is one of the problems with baseing decisions on a dog's ability from titles or hunt wins. Sometimes the dog wins in spite of their handler and sometimes the handler wins in spite of their dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, I thought that it was all about the competition. Why are they called " competition hunts". The interweb and pleasure hunters keep talking about the "best dog". I guess that y'all have never hunted in a competition hunt. Here is a news flash they compete against each other to see who wins. The dogs don't compete. The dogs are just out there trying to tree a coon. The handlers are competing to see who wins. That is one of the problems with baseing decisions on a dog's ability from titles or hunt wins. Sometimes the dog wins in spite of their handler and sometimes the handler wins in spite of their dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by treedog2345
I agree mr.lambert but the big thing is why is it so tight mouthed I have been beaten becouse of handler error and becouse of dog error when asked why folk qould say he messed up or the dog messed up It doesn't matter to me either way just the fact of no one knows the true facts of the qorld title that they all hold to a high standard.and again this is not meant to be a beat down in winner or looser people just deserve to know the fact not fake news from someone that wasn't there

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Nathan Phenix
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One thing we should all have learned in t-ball is the umpire's decision is final. I"ve never been to a sporting event where everybody in the crowd agreed with every call made on the field. I've seen TKO"s in boxing where some fans say the ref stopped it too soon. I've seen others where they said he should have stopped it sooner. I watched the New Orleans Saints miss a trip to the Superbowl on a very obviously blown interference call. I saw a young major league pitcher lose a perfect game on a blown call by an umpire. The officials in these games and coonhunting are as much a part of the contest as the participants. If we can't learn to play the game and accept the judgments of the officials about half of the population is going to be dissatisfied constantly.

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Donald Bergeron

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by shadinc
One thing we should all have learned in t-ball is the umpire's decision is final. I"ve never been to a sporting event where everybody in the crowd agreed with every call made on the field. I've seen TKO"s in boxing where some fans say the ref stopped it too soon. I've seen others where they said he should have stopped it sooner. I watched the New Orleans Saints miss a trip to the Superbowl on a very obviously blown interference call. I saw a young major league pitcher lose a perfect game on a blown call by an umpire. The officials in these games and coonhunting are as much a part of the contest as the participants. If we can't learn to play the game and accept the judgments of the officials about half of the population is going to be dissatisfied constantly. [/QUOTE


Well spoken Donald. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I believe the panel could have ruled differently Had they ruled that there was some confusion between handler and judge which caused a dog to be loose for three seconds but had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the cast, they are going with the judge instead of a scratch that would make a huge difference in the cast. I believe everyone involved would have been ok with it including UKC.

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Common sense .....wasn't used IMO.
An opportunity to "eliminate" your competition by any means necessary.......
Where's the respect in that.......
It's hard for me to accept a 3 sec.violation , warranted a scratch .... there has to be more to it than that .

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