Registered: Feb 2011
Location: mount pleasant NC
Posts: 117

I was only saying that would put the old debate to rest. if its called a coonhound it outta be able to tree a coon. And u cant hunt an off colored hound so confirmation is important too. If there were only 2 titles would you show your dog to get the degree or say to hell with it and pleasure hunt?

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RING TAIL KENNELS
Love them Walker dogs!!

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Lawrenceburg TN
Posts: 1793

COON DOGS WERE BRED TO BE COON DOGS, AND WALKERS WERE BRED TO BE WALKERS, POODLES MEANT TO BE POODLES, ETC.!!! WITHOUT BREED STANDARDS WE WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL WHAT!!! GET A SHIH TZU TO TREE AND YOU'VE GOT A COON DOG, IF IT'S GOOD AT IT, BREED BEST TO BEST!!! MAYBE UKC SHOULD DO AWAY WITH SEPERATE BREEDS AND JUST REGISTER 'COONDOGS' REGARDLESS' OF APPEARENCE!!! 1/2 POMERANIAN,1/4 PLOTT/, 1/4 GREAT PYRENEES, BUT IF IT'S 'COONDOG' BASED ON PERFORMANCE, BREED IT TO A FULL BLOODED LHASA APSO 'COONDOG'!!!

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by Hey Preacher!!!
OR ONLY PERMIT LITTERS TO BE REGISTERED FROM PARENTS THAT ARE BOTH DUAL GRAND?!!!

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It ain't the bark, it ain't the growl, it's the bite that hurts!

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I disagree... Nature culls ruthlessly, its human intervention that screws up the process, and breeding to a standard is often the cause of the genetic issues that plague many breeds Look at the english bulldog as an example... breeding to the standard has created a breed that cant naturally even reproduce, cant give birth, cant hardly breath and good hips in the breed are nonexistant. this is an extreme example but hound breeders do the same thing to a lesser extent when they create a standard for type ,color, size and coat without regard to the effect on ability.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

quote:

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Originally posted by Hey Preacher!!!
OR ONLY PERMIT LITTERS TO BE REGISTERED FROM PARENTS THAT ARE BOTH DUAL GRAND?!!!

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Better !!!!

Starplott is making sense here.

I don't necessarily agree about vet testing everything though.

Guys and Gals, no matter what you want to believe, these old crap eaters didn't get to where they are now without dedicated breeders using hard core selection and culling techniques.

When the bluetick breed seperated from the english, all the bluetick breeders of the time, made a sworn oath to not ship a puppy until it was three months old. Reason was so they could make sure it was going to fit the breed standard.

Ability?? Doesnt do a dam bit of good if the gyp can't milk or won't take care of her pups.

Ability?? Means nothing if the sire or dam can't reproduce their likeness.

Ability?? The guy wanting to breed a gyp ain't gonna forget about a shaggy haired, glass eyed duck footed "registered hound"no matter how good he looked in the woods.

I for one want the hard core bench show people to stick it out, cause we'll have something to breed back into after our ability only hounds start to get problems.

I know some serious foxhunters who have used show blood to get athleticism and vigor back in their ability only lines.

I also believe if you let off colors , bad feet and other serious defects in your breed slip past the culling block... You have no business breeding animals, let alone performance animals.

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It ain't the bark, it ain't the growl, it's the bite that hurts!

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by starplott
....Dealing w a lot of breeders overseas I hear a lot of 'americans breed their dogs just like themselves; fat, dumb, and lazy'

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Seems to me , they ruined some of the old hunting breeds before they ever got here , didn't they?

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

quote:

---

Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Better !!!!

Starplott is making sense here.

I don't necessarily agree about vet testing everything though.

Guys and Gals, no matter what you want to believe, these old crap eaters didn't get to where they are now without dedicated breeders using hard core selection and culling techniques.

When the bluetick breed seperated from the english, all the bluetick breeders of the time, made a sworn oath to not ship a puppy until it was three months old. Reason was so they could make sure it was going to fit the breed standard.

Ability?? Doesnt do a dam bit of good if the gyp can't milk or won't take care of her pup

Ability?? Means nothing if the sire or dam can't reproduce their likeness.

Ability?? The guy wanting to breed a gyp ain't gonna forget about a shaggy haired, glass eyed duck footed "registered hound"no matter how good he looked in the woods.

Would you agree that performance should be the number one consideration when breeding performance dogs?

I for one want the hard core bench show people to stick it out, cause we'll have something to breed back into after our ability only hounds start to get problems.

Why would breeding for ability create problems when the ones with a flaw that inhibits performance will not get bred?

I know some serious foxhunters who have used show blood to get athleticism and vigor back in their ability only lines.


why on earth would anyone be able to assume that dogs that arent bred to perform would add athleticism to a line of dogs that were bred to be athletes?

I live near a guy that has some of the winningiest field trial running walkers in the country and they are also some of the ugliest, poorly made,rangy,ribby,narrow chested suckers you have ever seen BUT i have seen them push a track on snow for 14 hours, stay sound and be ready to do it again the next day. So my conclusion is that you cant judge a hounds ability by its appearance.

I also believe if you let off colors , bad feet and other serious defects in your breed slip past the culling block... You have no business breeding animals, let alone performance animals.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Color has nothing to do with performance and ability!!

I was SIMPLY talking about "breed standards".

John are you trying to start an argument? I am just a simple minded plow boy, who likes to chase a possum or two on the weekends with my high powered ability first and foremost with no thought process involved in breeding decisions other than ability, two-bit registered crap eaters.

I also plan on getting some 6 gen. all Grand pups some day, but do not want a gr.show title on the papers, cause evryone knows if a dog can win on the bench it surely can't be much of a coondog, and up here we only breed by god coondogs, and then we let mother nature cull the tar out of the duds so we don't have to, then we tell all our buddies how much better our naturally culled, non show type dogs are better than everyone else's. Then one day all the coonhound worlds elite breeders, will come to us and ask how we are light years ahead in our programs, and we'll tell 'em " Boys breed coondog to coondog, don't worry if their feet are bad, mothers won't raise pups, dogs are silent, long shaggy hair, coke bottle nosed, cow hocked, over bitten, and sterile". And the masses will rush to our doors for some of this outstanding brood stock to continue with in the future. LOL! LOL makes everything better and not as sarcastic ..right??

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
What on earth can a dogs color have to do with its ability to perform?

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william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: ky. U.S.A.
Posts: 642

wildbill i agree that its a money deal why they do it.. but we got to stop for its killing our breed.. heck i went hunting with a frien a couple nights ago.. that meet a guy from tenn.. and he had two young dogs with him less then a year old .. they made 14 trees in just over a hour.. nothing in either tree. not much tracking just setting down treeing .. they were from one of the hottest stud and dam crosses of today.. know thats not good for any breed.. we turned loose two just old country coon dogs that dont have that hight strung blood lines and treed a coon in the same area these other two had treed in all night and seen nothing.. whats that telling us that were doing wrong.. steve randolph..

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CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

just got out of balance,dont have nothing to do with high strung
or conformation.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Are you saying some young tree idiot bred bull crap made a bunch of empty trees????

This is poposturous!!!!

How can ability bred tree idiot lines of hounds be empty??

Mr. John Duemmer would you like to explain???

How about the other jack wads that posted ridiculous comments on here... Would Love to hear your side of the empty tree story...................

Let me quess, It's the handlers. Always is.

Or , Maybe it's hounds with such ability, they beat the coon to the tree?? I know this happens alot.

What about balance, mothering abilities, good conformation? Tracking capabilities??? Let's not talk about that it doesn't help ability.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

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Originally posted by dual walkers
wildbill i agree that its a money deal why they do it.. but we got to stop for its killing our breed.. heck i went hunting with a frien a couple nights ago.. that meet a guy from tenn.. and he had two young dogs with him less then a year old .. they made 14 trees in just over a hour.. nothing in either tree. not much tracking just setting down treeing .. they were from one of the hottest stud and dam crosses of today.. know thats not good for any breed.. we turned loose two just old country coon dogs that dont have that hight strung blood lines and treed a coon in the same area these other two had treed in all night and seen nothing.. whats that telling us that were doing wrong.. steve randolph..

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740-255-3087
william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Are you saying some young tree idiot bred bull crap made a bunch of empty trees????

This is poposturous!!!!

How can ability bred tree idiot lines of hounds be empty??

Mr. John Duemmer would you like to explain???

How about the other jack wads that posted ridiculous comments on here... Would Love to hear your side of the empty tree story...................

Let me quess, It's the handlers. Always is.

Or , Maybe it's hounds with such ability, they beat the coon to the tree?? I know this happens alot.

What about balance, mothering abilities, good conformation? Tracking capabilities??? Let's not talk about that it doesn't help ability.

---

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

quote:

---

Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Are you saying some young tree idiot bred bull crap made a bunch of empty trees????

This is poposturous!!!!

How can ability bred tree idiot lines of hounds be empty??

Mr. John Duemmer would you like to explain???

How about the other jack wads that posted ridiculous comments on here... Would Love to hear your side of the empty tree story...................

Let me quess, It's the handlers. Always is.

Or , Maybe it's hounds with such ability, they beat the coon to the tree?? I know this happens al

















What about balance, mothering abilities, good conformation? Tracking capabilities??? Let's not talk about that it doesn't help ability.

---

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Last edited by john Duemmer on 02-10-2012 at 11:37 PM

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: ky. U.S.A.
Posts: 642

wait a minute jackbob... i was being a gentleman and not useing names so i would appreciate it if you dont call me a jack wad.. i will see you somewhere someday.. and we can discusse that.. but you want to know the sire is high x.. the dame is a all grand pedigree female out of cold sweat.. dont know either dog and dont fault either .. but all i know thee pips are .. just talked to david benett from here in ky he ownes them on the phone he said they are 8 months old.. not pleased with them at all. thats all i know about them.. other then he gave over 1000.00 for both of them.. sad thats what we were talking about titles and why we do it.. all because some of us will give that big money to have those titles on our papers.. some think that cause they have all those titles that they can buy pups and they are automaticly going to run and tree coons.. sad story cause its not going to always happen.. my friend we went with has a 3 year old local breed dog.. and i was hunting a 2 tear old female that has no grand nite dogs in fer pedigree and shes not the best dog ive ever hunted but she will drive a track and tree a coon.... dont take all nite either.. .. i competion hunted for three top breeders in the 90s and early 2000 tell i got heart trouble and just cant keep up any more with these younger guys.. i know what it takes to win in the hunts.. a pleasure dog ,, and competion dog are toadly two differant dogs. and you have to be a slick rule useing handler to win hunt after hunt .. been there and done that.. im a simple pleasure hunter know.. enjoy it more then i ever did comp. hunting.. it causes enemenys and gives you a head ach.. sorry but thats just the way it is .. didnt mean to step on anyones toes.. just tell it like it is..

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CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Who has the running dogs you speak of?

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Guys name is Dan Bennett.

Now i gotta say sorry Dan for callin your dogs ugly, but man them muts can push a yote.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Have never heard of him, and we run most of the big hunts.

Probably has some good hounds, but was under the impression he left his back yard.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

He has a pen here in NY. I know he travels quite a bunch, do you guys come east much.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

No , don't know him, but I know shane bonavita brought alot of Illinois and southern bred hounds up north, maybe some of them.

Pretty sure his hounds must be outsiders, cause most all the fox/coyote field trialers I know, breed for excellent feet/muscle tone and heads. Just simply, gotta have it.

Last edited by joseph mcdonald on 02-11-2012 at 04:10 AM

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Think hes only been at itabout 5 years but i know he has waiting lists for his pups at about 1,000 a pop. He used to be a coonhunter but got into the running dogs. I bought his last coondog.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by dual walkers
wait a minute jackbob... i was being a gentleman and not useing names so i would appreciate it if you dont call me a jack wad....

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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