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I'm thinking Yogi Berra wouldn't have been a very popular coonhunter.

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Donald Bergeron

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I'm thinking Yogi Berra wouldn't have been a very popular coonhunter.

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Getting beat doesn’t bring anything out in a man that wasn’t already there to begin with. It’s laughable to think that anyone would think poorly of a man for finishing what he started. My how times have changed!

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Question... When you choose to stay in the hunt down several hundred points what are you hoping will be the final outcome? Is it ever okay to shake a man's hand while hunt time is still going and withdraw then walk along to watch a better dog that night put on a coon treeing clinic? Sometimes just admitting it's just not your night or dogs is sportsmanship. And IMO if your one of those who hang around until the bitter end with no way of ever catching up unless the winner gets scratched I wouldn't call that sportsmanship. Know when to hold em' and know when to fold em'. Some you win some you lose but there's another next week somewhere if this one didn't have the desired outcome.
I've saw Cheyenne withdraw lots of times and I've seen him pull last minute wins out when the chips were down. Alot goes into his thinking in both instances. How far is he down? How many coons is it? What can he get struck back in for? How far are treed dogs that have to be scored? How much time is left? Weather conditions, dog in hand, how the dog has been performing thus far, ect, ect, ect.

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So, playing by the rules isn’t good enough. Now, if you don’t lay down when you get behind and let the ones leading win you are labeled unsportsmanlike. Looks like cancel culture has made its way into competition coonhounds.

It’s OK when Cheyanne and Trevor do it though because they are weighing their odds. Give me a break! No need to respond. I’ll go back to running my 2 businesses where we encourage everyone to fight and achieve and never give up. We will never ask our competitors to hold back or complain when they get an edge. We just work harder! Many wouldn’t know what competition was if it hit them in the face!

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Last edited by Ghost14 on 04-20-2022 at 05:54 PM

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The hard work is the preparation before and anyone can weigh their odds it's not just an ability given to two.
If you wish to stay in until the bitter end no matter the score by all means, have at. Some know when their beat shake hand congratulate the others and gear up for the next one. Others idk, getting their money's worth was mentioned. For some maybe they consider it good practice for the next one for them and their dog. Then there's the group that math may not be their strong point. Then there are those who no matter how far they are out of the race are keeping their fingers crossed that everyone but them gets scratched. The rules allow for all the above and also the ability to call mercy. I'm going to stick with my opinion that there are times the most sportsman thing to do is to know when to fold em'.
I am with Dave on advancement by win not score. I was glad to see some format changes at the world hunt last year but the zones for both world and toc need some adjusting.

PS, CONGRATS TO ALL THAT DID MAKE IT THROUGH TO THE TOC AND GOOD LUCK!
It looks like a tough field of dogs and handlers!

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For me and my opinion on this I could care less what the other person does in the cast. I've been in both shoes, but if I'm in a cast and I'm just getting whooped and its obvious I don't have enough time to come back. I'm not going to withdraw my dog necessarily but I'm also not going to be calling my dog ahead of the handler that has a chance to advance. To me, my opinion that's just the thing to do, also my dog is still being hunted and given a opportunity to get better versus laying in a box. I've been up 5-600 points in hunts and had someone with minus points with only a view minutes left to hunt calling their dog 1st and 1st. That's their right, I get it, would I do that absolutely not. But if their dog beats mine on strike and tree then call it by all means. I'm not going to be mad about it. That's just a part of the competition. If I end a hunt with 700+ after a guy that didn't stand a chance in the cast "stole" 225+ from me, and the cut off to advance ended up being 800+. I'm not going to hold that cast member to the fire and blame him, it boils down to if my dog would have been a tad bit faster, settled on the tree sooner, he wouldn't of gave up those 225+ points to the other dog. I can see and understand both sides, I think we get upset bc we know what WE would do in that situation, and it bothers us when others don't in return. I'm going to stay in but not take your points from you. But I can't be mad if someone does that to me... They're not me, and I'm not them.

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Autumn Oaks Grand Nite CH cast. All 4 dogs when signed up, I feel felt they had a shot at Making the Grand 16. Otherwise why enter and make the drive.

One dog had 225 plus carrying 100 Strike. A dog carrying 25 strike that had 100 minus points was declared treed several hundred yards opposite direction of the dog with 225 plus. Best this dog could possibly end up with is 50 plus with 20 minutes left. The guy was proud to make the cast walk to score his meaningless tree and tick time away. You folks on here saying this is right or the sportsmanlike thing to do? Walk a guy out of hearing of his dog when he had zero chance at winning. Classy

To get a dog ready to compete and win at a high level it takes weeks of preparation. Even with all this effort in a small 120 minutes a lot of things are out of a dogs as well as a handlers hand. Nobody should be signing up to "train" their dog. That was the work that was supposed to be taking place before the event not during it.

I can sympathize with this mentality at a local hunt where a guy is possibly wanting to stay in when trying to get his dog around strange dogs and hunt sutuations.

When I was 13 years old I was on a baseball team that went undefeated. One of our games we were up 30 to 0 in the 2nd inning. The run rule limit couldn't take effect until the 4th inning. My coach told us to all bat opposite handed. Was that the right call or should we have beat them 40 to nothing?

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Last edited by Hoosier Man1 on 04-27-2022 at 09:00 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Gregory Wallace
For me and my opinion on this I could care less what the other person does in the cast. I've been in both shoes, but if I'm in a cast and I'm just getting whooped and its obvious I don't have enough time to come back. I'm not going to withdraw my dog necessarily but I'm also not going to be calling my dog ahead of the handler that has a chance to advance. To me, my opinion that's just the thing to do, also my dog is still being hunted and given a opportunity to get better versus laying in a box. I've been up 5-600 points in hunts and had someone with minus points with only a view minutes left to hunt calling their dog 1st and 1st. That's their right, I get it, would I do that absolutely not. But if their dog beats mine on strike and tree then call it by all means. I'm not going to be mad about it. That's just a part of the competition. If I end a hunt with 700+ after a guy that didn't stand a chance in the cast "stole" 225+ from me, and the cut off to advance ended up being 800+. I'm not going to hold that cast member to the fire and blame him, it boils down to if my dog would have been a tad bit faster, settled on the tree sooner, he wouldn't of gave up those 225+ points to the other dog. I can see and understand both sides, I think we get upset bc we know what WE would do in that situation, and it bothers us when others don't in return. I'm going to stay in but not take your points from you. But I can't be mad if someone does that to me... They're not me, and I'm not them.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Autumn Oaks Grand Nite CH cast. All 4 dogs when signed up, I feel felt they had a shot at Making the Grand 16. Otherwise why enter and make the drive.

One dog had 225 plus carrying 100 Strike. A dog carrying 25 strike that had 100 minus points was declared treed several hundred yards opposite direction of the dog with 225 plus. Best this dog could possibly end up with is 50 plus with 20 minutes left. The guy was proud to make the cast walk to score his meaningless tree and tick time away. You folks on here saying this is right or the sportsmanlike thing to do? Walk a guy out of hearing of his dog when he had zero chance at winning. Classy

To get a dog ready to compete and win at a high level it takes weeks of preparation. Even with all this effort in a small 120 minutes a lot of things are out of a dogs as well as a handlers hand. Nobody should be signing up to "train" their dog. That was the work that was supposed to be taking place before the event not during it.

I can sympathize with this mentality at a local hunt where a guy is possibly wanting to stay in when trying to get his dog around strange dogs and hunt sutuations.

When I was 13 years old I was on a baseball team that went undefeated. One of our games we were up 30 to 0 in the 2nd inning. The run rule limit couldn't take effect until the 4th inning. My coach told us to all bat opposite handed. Was that the right call or should we have beat them 40 to nothing?

---

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Donald Bergeron

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The real problem here is these hunts are not true elimination style events and that would cure this debate quickly

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quote:

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Originally posted by wart
The real problem here is these hunts are not true elimination style events and that would cure this debate quickly

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I withdrew Friday night late in the late round with 38 minutes left. Connor had 475+ 1 dog was never struck in the other had minus I was struck for a 100 but she got down wind I was never gonna hear her. What’s the point of keeping hunting when your beat some just must like the exercise. I’ve also stepped a side so someone could get a double cast win and move on. I just hate the statement that you could tree a possum, I paid my money to hunt let’s hunt. Like I stated what’s the point of continuing when your beat. I’ve also withdrawn from 2500$ & 6500$ entry hunts. I’m not gonna keep walking around when I’m beat. For all that are against stepping back for a guy to get a double cast win to move on I’ll gaurantee you’d be hoping he would if the role was reversed for you to move on. Some don’t agree that it’s sportsmanship but I strongly agree that it is.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Bingham
I withdrew Friday night late in the late round with 38 minutes left. Connor had 475+ 1 dog was never struck in the other had minus I was struck for a 100 but she got down wind I was never gonna hear her. What’s the point of keeping hunting when your beat some just must like the exercise. I’ve also stepped a side so someone could get a double cast win and move on. I just hate the statement that you could tree a possum, I paid my money to hunt let’s hunt. Like I stated what’s the point of continuing when your beat. I’ve also withdrawn from 2500$ & 6500$ entry hunts. I’m not gonna keep walking around when I’m beat. For all that are against stepping back for a guy to get a double cast win to move on I’ll gaurantee you’d be hoping he would if the role was reversed for you to move on. Some don’t agree that it’s sportsmanship but I strongly agree that it is.

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Guys has anyone ever thought that maybe that's my Kennel partner in that other cast or maybe a guy from back home, and we are in the same RACOON club together. Why should I scratch to help you? Maybe I don't want you to win...! Why don't you just continue to whip the cast like you had been doing? No one owes you to scratch their dog! If you want to hunt alone I am pretty sure UKC has that format! Then you don't have to come on here and beg people to lay down for you!!!!!!!! You can feel free to put on that RACOON treeing clinic all by yourself!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dan&Ann
Guys has anyone ever thought that maybe that's my Kennel partner in that other cast or maybe a guy from back home, and we are in the same RACOON club together. Why should I scratch to help you? Maybe I don't want you to win...! Why don't you just continue to whip the cast like you had been doing? No one owes you to scratch their dog! If you want to hunt alone I am pretty sure UKC has that format! Then you don't have to come on here and beg people to lay down for you!!!!!!!! You can feel free to put on that RACOON treeing clinic all by yourself!

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This right here. If I have a dog or two with cast wins at the WH, TOC or Heartland that might be on the bubble, your dang straight I’m gonna stay in and compete for my own dog to possibly advance or maybe even a good friend .

And the comments about elimination style events don’t make sense. Win your casts and you don’t have to worry advancing on single cast wins.

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quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
This right here. If I have a dog or two with cast wins at the WH, TOC or Heartland that might be on the bubble, your dang straight I’m gonna stay in and compete for my own dog to possibly advance or maybe even a good friend .

And the comments about elimination style events don’t make sense. Win your casts and you don’t have to worry advancing on single cast wins.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Well said. I made the comment to the guys in my cast Saturday night at TOC zones thst if next year the role was reversed and they were up 525 on me second night I'd shake there hand and withdraw. They got offended by it from what I could tell. Can't please everyone. Dog men know when they are beat plain and simple.

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The elimination style does make sense because a dog with only 1 cast win gets in while others don't with one 1 cast win and they never compete against each other this is why many hunters don't hunt ukc and only now because of the money now in the purse have they started

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It seems like we're having two different discussions at the same time. It's within your rights to withdraw when you're losing, but don't call someone else a poor sport for not withdrawing. He is also within his rights. Senario: Ten minutes before deadline a handler walks in, wet up to the chest with scratches on his face and says, man, we had a shootout. I won right at the end with 575. How did you do, Joe. Joe says, "Well, I was hunting with 3 real sportsmen. They withdrew early so I could rack up points unchallenged. I have 600.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Bingham
If you beat your beat why stay in. If I’m beat I’m getting my dog and headed home. To me it’s senseless to keep walking around hunting when your beat. But that’s me. I’m not out there for the exercise.

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I guess it boils down to each handlers’ interpretation of what being “beat” means. The rule book tells us a bunch of ways that we’re beat.. Minusing out, a champion cast ‘possum, not enough points at the end of the hunt time, etc.. all those rules point out that it’s over - head to the truck. If somebody feels that being down 2 coons with an hour left means it’s over and they want to WD, then do your thing. I don’t see faulting somebody for staying in the cast and hunting it out. Like somebody else said, if you’re whooping them, what’s the difference? Keep on whooping them. That’s when the conversation comes in about high scores vs cast wins.

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quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
Completely different situations Jack. You were at a point in the TOC where it was win or go home. I’m talking about zones not finals.

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