Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
That may be correct, but it depends on the wording of the trap rule as noted above.

However, if it were that way you still could not assign tree points to the other dog because it wasn't a tree and the Advisor has already ruled assigning tree points and the stationary rule both only apply to trees.

As for intent, intent of the rule never matters only the wording. That's why we had to reword the dog struck when shut out on strike otherwise they had no way to be minused for strike. That wasn't the intent but that is how it was worded so we had to live with it until it was changed.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
No Rip UKC always interprets the intent. Always have.

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Last edited by Rip on 03-05-2018 at 04:59 AM

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I think we agree on the way this should be scored, but Allen has referenced intent in making interpretations several times. They wouldn't have to interpret anything if it was all black and white in how the rules are written. I don't even remember the subject but this came up a few months back because of how Allen "worded" something. He let everyone know the they are not lawyers and that the rules are not written in such a way.

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
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It makes sense that a stationary only applies to a tree, but after a dog is declared tree and the cast is forced to go to the dog/dogs in my opinion if they are showing a refuge every dog there should be scored the same as a tree if it is without a coon. With a coon I agree with how the rules read.

Last edited by sleepy head on 03-05-2018 at 12:27 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Rules or no rules I can't believe that somebody would even expect not to take a minus on dogs barking on an empty cage. But they circle everything now days.


Tar

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: PA
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Curious to see Allens ruling on this today.

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BTT

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John Haun

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Allen are you still chewing on that honey bun....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Allen are you still chewing on that honey bun....

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

4 pages for this. i didn't even read them all. you fellows need allen?
i figured i had enough reading when jim and a few others couldn't man up and take the minus that was deserved. gray areas, twisting,turning things around it's sad.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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A dog barking at an empty trap deserves more than a minus in my opinion !!


Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Do we really need a separate rule just for live traps? UKC/Allen has already said that live traps get deleted. If a trap with a coon gets deleted, then a trap without a.coon gets deleted also. If you start minusing dogs for empty live traps, then I wonder how many guides will start setting out empty live traps at their spots? Does anyone know where I can buy several live traps? There is a hunt this weekend at my club.

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Registered: Jun 2012
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No Richard you delete a coon in the trap not the trap. They delete a coon in a trap because it can not get away and its a fair chase issue. When there is not a coon in the trap fair chase isn't a issue. They might very well say its deleted and that's fine but In my opinion it wouldn't be right.

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If you can't find some traps just take some canning jars, squirt a little coon scent in them. A dog that will tree a empty trap probably won't mind what type of container it is

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The obvious thing is a dog would have to be a special kinda stupid to tree on a empty trap and his handler would be a slickster to want to get out of a minus on it. If I was a betting man by allens silence he feels the same way. 🙃

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: gillett PA
Posts: 545

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Do we really need a separate rule just for live traps? UKC/Allen has already said that live traps get deleted. If a trap with a coon gets deleted, then a trap without a.coon gets deleted also. If you start minusing dogs for empty live traps, then I wonder how many guides will start setting out empty live traps at their spots? Does anyone know where I can buy several live traps? There is a hunt this weekend at my club.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
a dog would have to be a special kinda stupid to tree on a empty trap

his handler would be a slickster to want to get out of a minus on it.

If I was a betting man by Allen's silence he feels the same way.

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Oh my goodness, there is just so much wrong with this..
Do you have any experience to back this up or are you just making it up? Almost any young dog that has been started on a coon in a trap will bark/bay/tree on an empty trap unless their owner has "broke" them from it later.

Why would not wanting to take minus on something that didn't require you to per the rules make you a "slickster"?

If you were a betting man, I bet that you would go broke. Is that why you are not a betting man?

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Location: IN
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, there is just so much wrong with this..
Do you have any experience to back this up or are you just making it up? Almost any young dog that has been started on a coon in a trap will bark/bay/tree on an empty trap unless their owner has "broke" them from it later.

Why would not wanting to take minus on something that didn't require you to per the rules make you a "slickster"?

If you were a betting man, I bet that you would go broke. Is that why you are not a betting man?

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And Richard lambert would try and win a nite hunt with a dog that would tree slobber mouth on a empty live trap and want to delete it and not be a little bit embarrassed ?



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Michael, I always thought that they deleted a trap because it was a man-made situation. If they didnt, guides would have traps up in trees and on the ground everywhere. The same holds true for an empty trap as it does for a trap with a coon in it.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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I've seen dogs barking at feeders too and I've seen kittens actually inside tire feeders. Can I delete those aswell lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by sleepy head
Hmmm don't minis because it's is used to train? Guess we shouldn't minis slick tree's either

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Don't minus or plus but delete because it is a man-made situation and has nothing to do with running and treeing coons. Do you really think that a slick tree is any comparison to a live trap is any way? How in the world did you get"because it is used to train" out of my statement? I really need to work on my writing skills. I need to send my posts to Mr Conkey for a rewrite before I post them.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
And Richard lambert would try and win a nite hunt with a dog that would tree slobber mouth on a empty live trap and want to delete it and not be a little bit embarrassed ?
Tar

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I am never embarrased to follow the rules.

Are you embarrased when your dog makes a slick tree and gets minused? Are you embarrased when your dog makes a slick tree and it gets circled? Are you embarrased when your dog gets first strike on a deer and then switches over and trees a coon?

Remember I hunt Redbones. I am never embarrased when they do something stupid. I am only embarrased when I do something stupid like minusing my dog when their points should be deleted.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
I've seen dogs barking at feeders too and I've seen kittens actually inside tire feeders. Can I delete those aswell lol

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Donnie, UKC has not ruled on or made an exception for feeders.
And what I think or "We" think should be done doesn't matter. Only UKC's opinion matters. They said live traps get deleted. Tarbaby, do you think Allen should be embarrased?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-06-2018 at 04:34 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
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Richard but it's obvious there is nothing in that trap even to the dog lol .................. Oh my goodness I would have a come apart lol.



They should have put the trap back in the truck before they cut the dogs loose or maybe they didn't have enough time before the dogs were cut loose just sayen lol.




Tar

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