Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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The only difference is UKC doesn't have rules against cows, dogs, or horses.

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Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

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Originally posted by snaggles
show me a rule that says u can do anything besides put the eight on a dog that opens more than three times after the eight. cause you are wrong ole jim. their is not a rule in the book book that states that. babbling rule is used before the minute an that's it

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

At the end of the day doesn't make one difference to me, if I can use the Garmin to keep up with dogs that are not opening or use it to avoid getting minus I certainly will, I just want to judge it the right way. Hearing house dogs barking and guessing my dog is that way is a far cry from following a Garmin.

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Dean Jamerson

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their is no rule that says how often a dog has to open other then during the eight running. So how far do u thank a dog can get in 8 min? the rule on babbling says u have to prove its no track. so prove to me that their is not a track just because a dog don't steady open. the way yall state it then y have a 8 min rule?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

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Originally posted by snaggles
their is no rule that says how often a dog has to open other then during the eight running. So how far do u thank a dog can get in 8 min? the rule on babbling says u have to prove its no track. so prove to me that their is not a track just because a dog don't steady open. the way yall state it then y have a 8 min rule?

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Im probably wrong but i thought UKC has said you can use the garmin when running the eight on a struck dog

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Registered: Dec 2003
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Posts: 979

I would like to see somebody from UKC give there stance on this about walking using a garmin I think you are only suppose to only use it to find you dog or keep it from danger

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
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Rip, if the minus you put on the dog was removed by a vote of the cast, then your dog barks 3 times, you strike him and the guy says your dog babbled are you going to minus your dog and if they all agree that your dog babbled when he did no more than the other dog what do you do? When the dogs are 100 yards away how can you say that you can minus them for babbling just because you want too.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by J I Allen
Rip, if the minus you put on the dog was removed by a vote of the cast, then your dog barks 3 times, you strike him and the guy says your dog babbled are you going to minus your dog and if they all agree that your dog babbled when he did no more than the other dog what do you do? When the dogs are 100 yards away how can you say that you can minus them for babbling just because you want too.

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Last edited by Rip on 04-04-2017 at 03:31 AM

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
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quote:

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Originally posted by mike fleming
I would like to see somebody from UKC give there stance on this about walking using a garmin I think you are only suppose to only use it to find you dog or keep it from danger

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Dean Jamerson

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quote:

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Originally posted by mike fleming
I would like to see somebody from UKC give there stance on this about walking using a garmin I think you are only suppose to only use it to find you dog or keep it from danger

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Dean Jamerson

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The rule is very clear and restrictive on tracking use. It can not be used to score any dog. From that stand point, scoring dogs involve just about every conceivable thing a handler could be doing, once a dog has chimed in. You can use your Garmin to walk by to the point that you walk into a tree from looking at it so closely, and no one cares. If ole "brumy" is barking, he can't be scored because the tracking device has him treed. Yes, the devices were allowed to be used as a tool to help protect dogs from danger. Some on here think that to mean it can be used to call time outs by, and demand that time be called when a dog is shown near a danger point, or on private properties. That isn't true. Time can be called by majority vote, or by non-hunting judge without such, but even a time out call involves scoring on dogs that are struck in, being it will delete their strike, so without a majority vote, it can't be used. It matters not if they are in the middle of the interstate highway. With no majority there is no time out, when using hunting judges. Of course the handler can always withdraw from the hunt and go get his hound. Some will say "but that involves scoring". No, it doesn't. Withdrawn dogs can no longer be scored, so there you go. The Garmin, or better termed, tracking devices are wonderful tools for cast members to use, but in this day and age, like youngsters with cell phones we get what can be termed Garmin dumb. We believe it is the only thing that we have that is fool proof and using it makes us so much better and smarter. Put the garmin in your pocket , leave it there until a time out is called, and use it to round up your dog. You will be surprised at how easy it is to learn about what your dog is doing by listening to him/her. They are trying their best to please you and let you know what is happening. Listen to them, and let them help you to. Combine what they are telling, and Garmin tracking of terrain, and you will become a much better handler. Sometimes we change rules with good intentions, and this one is no exception, but I will be willing to bet it is the most abused policy in the book. As an MOH, in just about every case of hearing a question, the handler and even the judge will say, my Garmin showed this, so I did this. That's scoring and can't be allowed. Use this tool as intended and it is a great one, but more questions and arguments are started over them than anything else in the last 3-4 years. Just go enjoy your hunt. Use your eyes and ears and all will work out from there. Use the Garmin to find the truck, then your dog.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
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Your Garmin can be used anytime you want to during the hunt. There is no restriction on when it can be looked at, including during an 8 minute timing. You can walk during the 8 minutes using it. Remember, you can't walk in any direction, unless the cast majority agrees to do so. Once 8 is broke, well then you walk to the dog you just heard. If there are others out, you can go back to last place you them and start another 8 on them. You may be stuck there, unless you can convince the cast to walk in a direction of choice, by majority vote. KEY POINT! Garmin can be used anytime a handler wishes, except for scoring, and scoring is a large word in the comp. hunting world, since just about every move could involve such. Strong knowledgeable judges are key to a great hunt, and keeping order.

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2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9280

quote:

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Originally posted by dean jamerson
Cast turns loose, after the minute one dog opens three times and is struck, shuts up. Cast advances up on a ridge 100 yards or so and 8 minute rule applied. About 4 or 5 minutes in handler of dog says she is a thousand yards we need to tighten up so I can hear my dog. Do you advance or stay out and finish running 8 where you are?

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Where are the other dogs and what is their story? Need more information to be able to answer correctly. Thanks.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Where are the other dogs and what is their story? Need more information to be able to answer correctly. Thanks.

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Dean Jamerson

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You get to as close as the last place you heard the dog and place the 8 on him forget the garmin stuff it don't mean nothing you don't need to know where his dog is he does jmo.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9280

Dean, I see no good reason why the cast cannot walk in the direction of that hound, given your scenario? It's his (handler's) 8 minutes and you have no other dog struck in that is being judged?

I'm going to assume the question really surrounds Telemetry Rule #3, which states:
At no time may an handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

The purpose of Rule 3# is for dogs blowing out of pocket that have not been struck in or heard, unless the majority of the cast agrees to do so.

Your situation doesn't quite fit that rule because the dog was declared struck. However, the dog hadn't been heard since he was declared struck nearby. So the argument could definitely be made that the rule should apply and it be a majority of cast decision whether or not the cast walk in that direction. Regardless, the 8 minutes comes into play and consideration should be granted to walk in that direction. UKC has stated, in the past, that the handlers whose dogs are on the clock may choose to walk during that time period. So, I'd say that applies here even though it may be waste of walking time in your situation.

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I am impressed Alan.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

Thanks

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Dean Jamerson

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He can walk his 8 and he can use his garmin to tell him where his dog is, so he can use his garmin to get you with hearing. That's basically what Allen just said. It wouldn't make much sense for a man to be able to walk you the 8 to get you in hearing and ignor his garmin.

As far as when the time was applied that was up to the judge.

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What I said wasn't wrong David you said the question about the use of the Garmin was not answered but it was. The part that wasn't answered was all the extra time given to the dog by not starting the 8 faster. That wasn't part of the Garmin question. Thats up to the judge and was never questioned.

No one said the reading of the Garmin did not result in finding the dog. Everyone realizes that. The thing is you can not tell him he can not walk with the 8 on his dog and you can not tell him what way he has to walk.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3466

If Alan understands the telemetry rule, I don't. And I'm a good reader.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Vincennes, IN.
Posts: 754

Allowing garmins to be used in hunts was the worst thing the KC'S have ever done.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
What I said wasn't wrong David you said the question about the use of the Garmin was not answered but it was. The part that wasn't answered was all the extra time given to the dog by not starting the 8 faster. That wasn't part of the Garmin question. Thats up to the judge and was never questioned.

No one said the reading of the Garmin did not result in finding the dog. Everyone realizes that. The thing is you can not tell him he can not walk with the 8 on his dog and you can not tell him what way he has to walk.

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