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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Thank you.

Looks like we are not all cheating after all.



Not all...but some. You have to hunt the full two hours according to UKC rules, not yours.

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Old Post 02-11-2016 11:08 PM
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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
Not all...but some. You have to hunt the full two hours according to UKC rules, not yours.


According to UKC rules I dont. A dog can spend all kinds of time on a leash

What if some dog is ahead by 500, 3 min to go, everybody else in the cast has minus, but all are still at large and struck in. He touches his coon squaller not thinking shining the last tree in the first minute of shine time?

You going to scratch him if you are the Judge?

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Old Post 02-11-2016 11:13 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
According to UKC rules I dont. A dog can spend all kinds of time on a leash

What if some dog is ahead by 500, 3 min to go, everybody else in the cast has minus, but all are still at large and struck in. He touches his coon squaller not thinking shining the last tree in the first minute of shine time?

You going to scratch him if you are the Judge?

What would you do? What should you do?

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Old Post 02-12-2016 12:11 AM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

When you have 1hr. and 10 minutes left to hunt and you're 10 minutes from the truck and you're changing locations, do you walk to the truck then call time out, or do you call time out then walk to the truck. Same with 10 minutes. You call time out and walk to the truck. Then move and hunt 10 minutes.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 12:17 AM
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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
What would you do? What should you do?


Squall with him and help him find his coon.

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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
When you have 1hr. and 10 minutes left to hunt and you're 10 minutes from the truck and you're changing locations, do you walk to the truck then call time out, or do you call time out then walk to the truck. Same with 10 minutes. You call time out and walk to the truck. Then move and hunt 10 minutes.


If I am guiding we are not spot hunting. We get back in the truck when the cast is over.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 12:23 AM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
If I am guiding we are not spot hunting. We get back in the truck when the cast is over.
What about when you're not guiding. If you would stop making it all about you, it would be easier for you to understand the rule.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 12:29 AM
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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
What about when you're not guiding. If you would stop making it all about you, it would be easier for you to understand the rule.


I understand the rule perfectly. If the judge makes me turn loose I turn loose. If he lets me walk the last few minutes back towards the truck looking for a good place to turn loose till the hunts over I keep my dog on the leash. Both are within the rules.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 12:39 AM
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elvis
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

Good Grief
If Im beat and I know it, Im withdrawing my junk and shaking your hand, congrats man,youve got a nice hound.
If you want to walk out the last few minutes, its fine by me. If you want to try and tree another, Ill help you however i can.
When the time comes that I have to try to win a cast by hopeing you tree a possum or get scratched on some silly rule infraction, just shoot me.
Write me up, get me barred for life, I dont give a rats a&&. Ill be danged if I stoop to useing the rules just to hinder the cast member whom has just soundly kicked my butt.

call me a cheater, dont care.
I sleep well.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 01:47 AM
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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
Good Grief
If Im beat and I know it, Im withdrawing my junk and shaking your hand, congrats man,youve got a nice hound.
If you want to walk out the last few minutes, its fine by me. If you want to try and tree another, Ill help you however i can.
When the time comes that I have to try to win a cast by hopeing you tree a possum or get scratched on some silly rule infraction, just shoot me.
Write me up, get me barred for life, I dont give a rats a&&. Ill be danged if I stoop to useing the rules just to hinder the cast member whom has just soundly kicked my butt.

call me a cheater, dont care.
I sleep well.



Well said

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Old Post 02-12-2016 01:50 AM
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Steve Raleigh
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Registered: Feb 2009
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Posts: 898

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Well said


X2

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moleman
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Posts: 275

After reading all these post i know why i gave it up and just stick to pleasure hunting anymore, my nerves are shaking, Lol.

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msinc
Banned

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
Good Grief
If Im beat and I know it, Im withdrawing my junk and shaking your hand, congrats man,youve got a nice hound.
If you want to walk out the last few minutes, its fine by me. If you want to try and tree another, Ill help you however i can.
When the time comes that I have to try to win a cast by hopeing you tree a possum or get scratched on some silly rule infraction, just shoot me.
Write me up, get me barred for life, I dont give a rats a&&. Ill be danged if I stoop to useing the rules just to hinder the cast member whom has just soundly kicked my butt.

call me a cheater, dont care.
I sleep well.



I have no doubt any of you sleep well...I also have no doubt any of you care about being cheaters, but you missed the whole point like the rest of them. It's not about the guy that soundly beat you. It's about the rest of the casts in the hunt. Is there only one cast of dogs at the hunts you guys go to??? Because that is how you all act.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 01:02 PM
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HOBO
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U.K.C. could put an end to all of this with a simple answer of is it allowed or not?

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Ron Jackson
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1513

Even In a HTX hunt you are to hunt the full hunt and you are only hunting with 1 dog in the whole hunt. So when the out come of your cast is having an impact on other casts in an UKC night hunt you really should hunt the full time. We all know what can happen in the last minutes of a hunt but that is just the way it goes. You play by the rules and win or you don't play by the rules and win! The later is not what I want to lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the the night and be judged on.

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pabeagler
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2013
Location:
Posts: 195

quote:
Originally posted by Fire Archer
It is amusing how most guys say UKC rules are so black and white. However there is a constant argument/misunderstanding on here over the rules. Maybe make it where you should have to be certified/tested by UKC before you can be a judge and present your certification to MOH prior to hunt. It would be more work on UKC's part but I believe it would make the hunts more enjoyable and a ton less arguments. Something has to be done. Way to many ways to cheat the system and tons of people willing to do it.


Using judges who have completed rule seminars or webinars would eliminate alot of the judging errors , and if a judges rulings are found to be erroneous by m.o.h 3 times , that judge should be required to re test.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 01:58 PM
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Steve Raleigh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 898

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
I have no doubt any of you sleep well...I also have no doubt any of you care about being cheaters, but you missed the whole point like the rest of them. It's not about the guy that soundly beat you. It's about the rest of the casts in the hunt. Is there only one cast of dogs at the hunts you guys go to??? Because that is how you all act.


You are so worried about the other cast, it brings to mind when hunting the Winter Classic when one guide takes a cast to hunt the big state ground while another guide takes their cast to hunt bucket coons. That guide/cast hunting bucket coons is cheating the other cast lol. Life is not fair, get over it!

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nitehunter2004
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

quote:
Originally posted by moleman
After reading all these post i know why i gave it up and just stick to pleasure hunting anymore, my nerves are shaking, Lol.

Me Too, Good gref.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New rule?????

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
How long according to the rules?


Oh my goodness.... So, there isn't a "new" rule? This rule has been there all along. "Handler/handlers can agree to walk as far as needed away from a tree before turning loose again". I have been hunting in UKC hunts for 25 years and that "rule" has been there for the whole time. If the hunt time expires while they are walking away from a tree, then the hunt is over. I have heard the term "walking out the last 10 minutes" for 25 years now. Why do you act like this is something new? Just how long have you been competition hunting? Why is this discussion still going on?

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Old Post 02-12-2016 02:48 PM
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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New rule?????

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness.... So, there isn't a "new" rule? This rule has been there all along. "Handler/handlers can agree to walk as far as needed away from a tree before turning loose again". I have been hunting in UKC hunts for 25 years and that "rule" has been there for the whole time. If the hunt time expires while they are walking away from a tree, then the hunt is over. I have heard the term "walking out the last 10 minutes" for 25 years now. Why do you act like this is something new? Just how long have you been competition hunting? Why is this discussion still going on?


Read the posts again before you have a stroke. Slower this time.

I know the rule, I don't care if someone walks the end of a cast out, and I am aware that it is nothing new

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Surveyor
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Posts: 1100

I been reading all this and guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. First the call time out rule if you have to walk 15 minutes before recasting was eliminated the last time the rules were revised. Rule 7 (C) now reads "when all dogs are on leash and have been scored", so just as soon as that tree is determined scored, call time out immediately if all dogs are leashed even if you are just walking a minute to recast. Rule 6 (i) reads dogs will be scratched"for hunting over or under the advertised hunt time), so indeed, by the strict letter of the rules there is no provision for calling a hunt 1 second before hunting 120 minutes 00 seconds. Now that being said I bet there isn't a one of us that has hunted many hunts that hasn't been in a cast where they walked out a little bit of time at the end because no one wanted to re cast. I'd like to believe there are times in life where common sense dictates we violate a rule or law as the case may be because it just makes sense. Take this real life scenerio and tell me what you'd do: In the course of a hunt the dogs have been handled twice. All on split trees. 1 dog has scored plus on both of theirs, the other 2 are sitting on minus. This is a 3 dog Nt Ch cast and the only Nt CH cast in the hunt. After scoring the second plus tree for the one dog, the other 2 are heard split treed again. By the time their trees are scored there is 6 minutes left in the 120 minute 00 second hunt time. 2 dogs are sitting on minus, one is at 425+. You have walked up and down hills all night, you are over a mile from the trucks and it's only the second time of the night you've had your hands on your dog. Are you a low life cheater to just say this hunt is over?
Also about the 8 minute rule, Rule 4 (b) reads "if none of the declared struck dogs open within 8 minutes" they are minused. It doesn't read if you can't hear them and I totally disagree with anybody that says it's correct procedure to start the 8 the second they drop over a hill and out of hearing. I seem to have misplaced my advisor second addition, but I think that was addresed in there too. But again common sense dictates you don't start the 8 if they are somewhere you know you can't hear them.

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Richard Lambert
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Mr Michaelis, the questions weren't directed to you. I quoted your post as the answer to the question. It sure isn't the first time that what is in my head isn't what comes out/across on paper.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 02-12-2016 at 03:31 PM

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Josh Michaelis
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Michaelis, the questions weren't directed to you. I quoted your post as the answer to the question. It sure isn't the first time that what is in my head isn't what comes out/across on paper.


haha, I was thinking you may not have had your coffee yet lol

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GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Hunting and striking Babbling dogs is cheating to.. Walking 14:59 to turn back loose is not illegal. 20 min. Yeah thats illegal.

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Old Post 02-12-2016 04:32 PM
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ov_blues
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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
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quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
If it takes more than 15 minutes to find new hunting ground by foot then technically with the right guide a cast could walk out the last 15 minutes of the hunt. And that could be the holler down the road a couple of hundred yards if you walked real slow. lol.

I drew a judge one time that guided us to one big woods. After the first tree he called time out and said we were going to walk a ways and then cut them loose. We walked really slow, with a couple of stops to rest over the next 15 minutes, then we arrived at the "next" turnout. We made another tree and after it was scored he tried to do the same thing. I objected and said that wasn't fair for us to do that to the other casts in order for us to gain more hunting time than them. He said well they are probably spot hunting and calling time out after every tree so this makes it fair to us. We ended up not calling time out after every tree but it does show that things can be justified in someones mind if they think of the right angle.



Thanks Surveyor, I stand corrected. I didn't know the rule had changed. So now, by the rules a person can't use up 15 minutes of hunting time to find new hunting ground and a cast can call time outs between drops even in the same woods as long as all of the dogs are on lead straps.

PS: Unless UKC comes out in an adviser that they didn't mean it that way when they worded the 7 (C) rule that way. lol.

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