Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

yadkintar, It's really simple, maybe to simple.
Take an really balanced ,talented individual, who came from good stock, especially good mother, find a relative(uncle etc..)
That shows the same likeness, traits etc.. breed the two, take those pups and only choose the ones that are exactly like the mother and uncle, cull the rest. Goes on and on from there till you get the same likeness consistently. The culling will eventually lessen because they are becoming more alike.
Selection, selection, selection of the same traits.
It's not for everybody, you must be patient and really want to breed good hounds, This is the reason I started this post, hated to see good lines slip away, took allot of hard work.
Joe Newlin is a Good example.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I know I been doing this since tar rattler was alive as strong of a reproducer as he was I had 3 generations where a large percentage of the pups made top dogs I made one bad cross and I have bred my female to 3 different studs made some good dogs but just not what I am looking for so this last time I bred her back to her grandpa time will tell!!!!!! Right now what I like to change is they are hard headed to a fault or maybe it's just me getting older lol !!!

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

I hear ya!lol There is always something to work on.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Fayetteville, Tn
Posts: 86

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Y'all are getting to complicated !!! All I know to do is put two dogs together hope that it works try to make a good litter out of that breeding if it don't cull heavy and move on !!!!

---

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Last edited by HowellN on 02-11-2015 at 01:17 PM

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Location: Marietta
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Well !!!!!!!!! I guess you told me enlighten us on some of your accomplishments so maybe we will get it right every time and not have to waste our time and money

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

Let's not direct anything toward anybody and keep to subject!
Making things personal ruins a post.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

I sure wish someone would figure it out. A guy can go thru a lot of pups trying to find one that suits him.

Many claim to have it, but seeing is believing.
A whole lot of mediocracy out there, but very very few special ones.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

Half brother x half sister is this line breeding or in breeding?

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I think maybe for me and alot of others we have had that special one in a lifetime dog and unless you have a bank full of money you try to breed or raise one yourself and they just don't happen very often plus when breeding alot of it depends on what kind of hunting you have the old saying a coondog is a coondog anywhere is not always so here where I live in these scattered coons I takes a pretty level headed dog to keep em off the junk long enough to get them on a coon they got to have alot of hunt and heart it's hard to breed for all that and get it far as making a cross its like going in debt you can sign those papers in 10 minutes it takes years yo pay it off !!!!

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

Another article:


TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL:



OUTCROSSING introduces new traits for definite improvement. Our biggest failing is “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. LINEBREEDING creates and establishes a pedigree which in degrees, incorporates and produces specific traits on a continuous basis. If a good female results from a breeding, she can be bred back to her grandsire for consistency of type reflecting the sire’s side. INBREEDING sets type and simplifies goals. Inbreeding consists of mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister, etc. Strengthening desirable dominants as well as hidden recessive, the breeder must recognize and correct once again through out crossing...



Breeders must always be aware of hidden genetic positive and negative effects. A breeding made from paper study alone is like an arranged marriage-it may be consummated, but there is small chance for success”. (EHH 1968)



Successful breeders “arrive” through heartbreak, tears, and hard work. They achieve desired results by eliminating animals that do not reflect their goals. These animals are called “pets”. The standard IS our blueprint, although too often, personal opinion takes precedence.



For a more in depth study of how to correct faults, read Lloyd C. Brackett’s “Planned Breeding” article on the website www.nylana.org. This breeder, following Brackett’s methods, is known for Best in Show Schipperkes. Although there are over 53 pages, for a serious breeder the consumption of ink and paper is certainly worth the printing.



Not for the “squeamish”, there is another type of breeding:



BACKBREEDING. If one has a superior male and lovely bitch excelling in health, type, temperament, and conformation. MATE THEM. Keep a female from this litter and mate this puppy to her sire. Keep a female puppy from the resulting litter and take her to the original sire, (her father). Breed until you reach the desired results or until weaknesses become apparent. Few will take up this challenge, but it’s something to consider. “Back breeding” produced many of the “GREATS” in a variety of breeds. This is WHY many greats of the past were dominant for producing their qualities generation after generation. This confirms becoming a respected breeder is a slow and painful process.



Back Breeding “sets type”. The offspring will mirror the excellence of the line. When line- breeding and in-breeding is done properly, strengths, NOT weaknesses, will be the end result.



True breeders are “tough cookies”. Through their dedication to the standards, the goal of “breed excellence” will remain firm, moving our great sport of dogs into the future.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Fayetteville, Tn
Posts: 86

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fisher13
Half brother x half sister is this line breeding or in breeding?

---

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Ky
Posts: 178

quote:

---

Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Another article:


TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL:



OUTCROSSING introduces new traits for definite improvement. Our biggest failing is “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. LINEBREEDING creates and establishes a pedigree which in degrees, incorporates and produces specific traits on a continuous basis. If a good female results from a breeding, she can be bred back to her grandsire for consistency of type reflecting the sire’s side. INBREEDING sets type and simplifies goals. Inbreeding consists of mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister, etc. Strengthening desirable dominants as well as hidden recessive, the breeder must recognize and correct once again through out crossing...



Breeders must always be aware of hidden genetic positive and negative effects. A breeding made from paper study alone is like an arranged marriage-it may be consummated, but there is small chance for success”. (EHH 1968)



Successful breeders “arrive” through heartbreak, tears, and hard work. They achieve desired results by eliminating animals that do not reflect their goals. These animals are called “pets”. The standard IS our blueprint, although too often, personal opinion takes precedence.



For a more in depth study of how to correct faults, read Lloyd C. Brackett’s “Planned Breeding” article on the website www.nylana.org. This breeder, following Brackett’s methods, is known for Best in Show Schipperkes. Although there are over 53 pages, for a serious breeder the consumption of ink and paper is certainly worth the printing.



Not for the “squeamish”, there is another type of breeding:



BACKBREEDING. If one has a superior male and lovely bitch excelling in health, type, temperament, and conformation. MATE THEM. Keep a female from this litter and mate this puppy to her sire. Keep a female puppy from the resulting litter and take her to the original sire, (her father). Breed until you reach the desired results or until weaknesses become apparent. Few will take up this challenge, but it’s something to consider. “Back breeding” produced many of the “GREATS” in a variety of breeds. This is WHY many greats of the past were dominant for producing their qualities generation after generation. This confirms becoming a respected breeder is a slow and painful process.



Back Breeding “sets type”. The offspring will mirror the excellence of the line. When line- breeding and in-breeding is done properly, strengths, NOT weaknesses, will be the end result.



True breeders are “tough cookies”. Through their dedication to the standards, the goal of “breed excellence” will remain firm, moving our great sport of dogs into the future.

---

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

We are looking for ways to improve as breeders, just as Elvis and many others have said, it's amazing how many mediocre dogs are out there.
Just trying to bring other breeding practices to the front that have slipped threw the cracks and are standard breeding practices.
Inbreeding and Line breeding and Back breeding "Not" for humans, Great for animals! With a person who is stringent on selection.
Out crossing all the time is as"Forest would say, a box of chocolates."

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: West sunbury Pa.
Posts: 670

What I like about line breeding is, One you know about what your going to get a big majority of the time. If you start with a good tight family of dogs that hasn't been watered down through out the yrs that's half the battle..If your smart about what you breed them to, your line should gradually improve in the direction you want them to. Out crosses are necessary once in awhile forsure. When i make a out cross I personally like for the outcross dog to be either from a heavy line bred family also or at least have the same family of dogs I run either on the top side or bottom side. This is what has worked for me over the yrs. Sometimes I get lucky and get exactly what I was breeding for and something very special comes out of the cross. But a lot of the times I just get good OL' Coon Dogs..dogs I know where they've come from, where they've been, and in what direction I'm trying to head them in (to suit me). Not to say I don't throw a monkey wrench in the mix once in awhile just to see what happens. It's fun and exciting for me and my family..Good Hunting to all...and remember if you enjoy what you have it really doesn't matter what anyone else does, life is short, so enjoy yourself in what ever you do. God Bless!

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Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale




~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

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Interesting?


Breeders do not always agree on what constitutes linebreeding, with some feeling that common ancestors within the first five or six generations is linebreeding. Willis (1989) indicates that the farther back linebreeding is in a pedigree the less intensive it will be, pointing out that a dog appearing 12 times (out of a possible 32) in the 6th generation of a pedigree would have a Coefficient of Inbreeding (CI) of only 1.8% (by comparison, a sire to granddaughter cross has a CI of 12.5%). The CI tells us the proportion of genes for which the inbred ancestor is likely to be homozygous, that is carrying the same genes from each parent. (Remember that homozygous animals have a higher potential for reproducing themselves.) In Willis’s (1992) view, a common ancestor farther back than the 2nd or 3rd generation will have little influence on the litter. Linebreeding beyond the fourth generation has even less genetic impact.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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What a Quote: A Line bred pedigree is only as valuable as a person's ability to determine the virtues and faults of the dogs it contains.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Location: Northwest Georgia
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Outcross breeding:


The definition of outcross breeding is the mating of purebred dogs within the same breed that are relatively unrelated. The style of breeding increases heterozygosity and creates new genetic combinations by bringing together genes from totally unrelated individuals. There are two primary reasons that a knowledgeable breeder will choose to make an outcross breeding. The first is to introduce into their family of dogs a trait that is absent or lacking, and secondly to dilute undesirable traits that are caused by homozygous recessive genes. Outcross breeding is essential when a breeding program begins to show signs of inbreeding depression such as loss of vigor, disease resistance and infertility. Many times breeders will have two basic inbred or linebred families of dogs or bloodlines within their kennel and will do outcross breeding between these two lines. The result will be dogs that are 'better' than the two original lines. Breeders speak of this as a 'nick'. Geneticists speak of this as 'hybrid vigor'. No matter what you want to call it, this type of breeding will many times produce animals that are better than each of the original lines. Many times these dogs produced from outcross breeding have gone on to become athletic top performance animals.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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