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rance56
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

and one last thing, if QE that is going on now is to bailout the banks how do explain the share price of goldman sachs is over $150/share, jp morgan is valued over a $50 a share and wells fargo over $40 a share. does that sound like insitutions that are of in need of bailing out

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11-28-2013 04:57 AM

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shakethevine
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Dover, Ohio
Posts: 551

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
ok, we are making a little progress.

I would say the goals of qe1,2,3 are the same and the reason we have qe3 is that QE2 didn't work and the reason we had qe2 was that qe1 didn't solve the issues.

and I would disagree a mountain of toxic assets were bought in qe1. TARP took care of that. did assets purchased in qe1 have the potential to be troubled yes, but I don't believe they already were or turned out to be. since you are guaranteeing this, I would expect you to able to clearly show that a ton of toxic assets were bought in qe1 from multiple sources

Toxic Assets (Security Backed Mortgages)

QE1........1.25 to 1.75 TRILLION (depending on which resource you use)

QE2.......BUST

QE3..........40 Billion a month

That's a MOUNTAIN of toxic assets.

http://www.investmenttribe.com/quan...-easing-part-2/
http://ispyetf.wordpress.com/tag/qe1/
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/fed...s-timeline.aspx

I'm not sure what the total QE is to date (I'm thinking around 5 or 6 Trillion)....but potentially 20 to 25% of that could be Toxic Assets ..MOUNTAIN!.....lol

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11-28-2013 01:28 PM

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rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

quote:
Originally posted by shakethevine
Toxic Assets (Security Backed Mortgages)

QE1........1.25 to 1.75 TRILLION (depending on which resource you use)

QE2.......BUST

QE3..........40 Billion a month

That's a MOUNTAIN of toxic assets.

http://www.investmenttribe.com/quan...-easing-part-2/
http://ispyetf.wordpress.com/tag/qe1/
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/fed...s-timeline.aspx

I'm not sure what the total QE is to date (I'm thinking around 5 or 6 Trillion)....but potentially 20 to 25% of that could be Toxic Assets ..MOUNTAIN!.....lol

I am going to say this one more time, just because it is a mortgage backed security doesn't mean its toxic, im not sure how else to get that key point across. also a good portion of the qe ibuying is just re purchasing new securities from prior purchases that expired/came due.

you do realize that the fed has to eventually sell the majority of these assets back to the open markets, do you think if all these securities are toxic or a large portion of it they are going to be able to find buyers?

bottom line QE is not a bank bailout. we had a specific bill for that. do the banks benefit from it yes. have they probally gotten some assets off their books that they were happy to do so, yes. but the reason for qe is to provide liquidity to keep the markets operating and to keep interest rates low so the economy can recover and get back on track from the financial crisis. the problem obamas policies are getting in the way of our capitalistic economy because he doesn't believe in the American way of doing things.

now im getting back to football.

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11-28-2013 07:12 PM

truly
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: minnesota
Posts: 3660

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
and one last thing, if QE that is going on now is to bailout the banks how do explain the share price of goldman sachs is over $150/share, jp morgan is valued over a $50 a share and wells fargo over $40 a share. does that sound like insitutions that are of in need of bailing out

And as the editors of Bloomberg pointed out in July 2012:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...e-welfare-.html

JPMorgan receives a government subsidy worth about $14 billion a year, according to research published by the International Monetary Fundand our own analysis of bank balance sheets. The money helps the bank pay big salaries and bonuses. More important, it distorts markets, fueling crises such as the recent subprime-lending disaster and the sovereign-debt debacle that is now threatening to destroy the euro and sink the global economy.

***

With each new banking crisis, the value of the implicit subsidy grows. In a recent paper, two economists � Kenichi Ueda of the IMF and Beatrice Weder Di Mauro of the University of Mainz � estimated that as of 2009 the expectation of government support was shaving about 0.8 percentage point off large banks� borrowing costs. That�s up from 0.6 percentage point in 2007, before the financial crisis prompted a global round of bank bailouts.

To estimate the dollar value of the subsidy in the U.S., we multiplied it by the debt and deposits of 18 of the country�s largest banks, including JPMorgan, Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. The result: about $76 billion a year. The number is roughly equivalent to the banks� total profits over the past 12 months, or more than the federal government spends every year on education.

JPMorgan�s share of the subsidy is $14 billion a year, or about 77 percent of its net income for the past four quarters. In other words, U.S. taxpayers helped foot the bill for the multibillion-dollar trading loss that is the focus of today�s hearing. They�ve also provided more direct support: Dimon noted in a recent conference call that the Home Affordable Refinancing Program, which allows banks to generate income by modifying government-guaranteed mortgages, made a significant contribution to JPMorgan�s earnings in the first three months of 2012.

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11-28-2013 08:53 PM

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brushrunretiree
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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Reader, W.V.
Posts: 2109

Three Questions For You Experts. Which President When Fanny Mae And Freddie Mac Were Under Investigation?? Why Were They Being Investigated??? What Party Had Control Of The Houses Of Congress??

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11-28-2013 09:28 PM

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truly
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: minnesota
Posts: 3660

quote:
Originally posted by brushrunretiree
Three Questions For You Experts. Which President When Fanny Mae And Freddie Mac Were Under Investigation?? Why Were They Being Investigated??? What Party Had Control Of The Houses Of Congress??

from wiki:
In late 2004, Fannie Mae was under investigation for its accounting practices. The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight released a report[64] on September 20, 2004, alleging widespread accounting errors.
Fannie Mae was expected to spend more than $1 billion in 2006 alone to complete its internal audit and bring it closer to compliance. The necessary restatement was expected to cost $10.8 billion, but was completed at a total cost of $6.3 billion in restated earnings as listed in Fannie Mae's Annual Report on Form 10-K.
Concerns with business and accounting practices at Fannie Mae predate the scandal itself. On June 15, 2000, the House Banking Subcommittee On Capital Markets, Securities And Government-Sponsored Enterprises held hearings on Fannie Mae.[65]

On December 18, 2006, U.S. regulators filed 101 civil charges against chief executive Franklin Raines; chief financial officer J. Timothy Howard; and the former controller Leanne G. Spencer. The three are accused of manipulating Fannie Mae earnings to maximize their bonuses. The lawsuit sought to recoup more than $115 million in bonus payments, collectively accrued by the trio from 1998 to 2004, and about $100 million in penalties for their involvement in the accounting scandal.

Brush, Fannie has been around for over 70 years. I think there have been many investigations over the years.

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11-28-2013 10:12 PM

rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

here is a quote directlty from the link truly posted.

The solution: Minimize the subsidy.

Why hasn�t this been done? One partial explanation can be found in the amount of money banks put into election campaigns and into lobbying, which has recently included efforts to water down the Dodd-Frank financial-reform legislation. According to the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics, the broad financial industry -- a category that includes real estate companies and insurers -- has spent $285 million on political giving in the 2012 election cycle. That�s much more than any other industry spends.

and looky here who is receiving large amounts of contributions from said jp morgan. I thought he was going to run lobbyist and this type of coercion out of dc.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ama-donors.html

President Barack Obama�s largest campaign donors last month included employees of Wells Fargo & Co., (WFC) JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS), according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission records.

Their support indicates that Wall Street, which gave Obama $16 million for his successful 2008 White House run, is opening its checkbook again for the president. The contributions helped Obama raise $21 million in February, including $6.5 million transferred from a joint fundraising committee with the Democratic National Committee.

Wells Fargo employees ranked sixth with $16,290 in donations to the president�s campaign last month; JPMorgan executives came in 10th with $14,903, just ahead of Goldman employees who gave $14,610.

Employees of New York-based Goldman and their families gave Obama $1 million four years ago, more than those of any other company, and JPMorgan employees contributed $808,799, the fourth most, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

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Last edited by rance56 on 11-29-2013 at 03:07 AM

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11-29-2013 03:00 AM

rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

nuff said on fannie mae Freddie mac in this 40 second clip. the gop tried to raise the alarm but was shot down by the dems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...p;v=m9W_6U7GRrI

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11-29-2013 03:11 AM