Registered: Jul 2007
Location: WESTERN MARYLAND
Posts: 5946

Pat
I agree with you and you have made me think just a little about it.

I am not a show judge but have participated in them for a long while. I do not claim to know or understand it all. So anything they put out could help.

Idea, why don't you and a few of the others have a video made on what you know . Have all breeds represented, show anything that had to do with snowing etc. Good and bad. Movemos, gaiting. Sell them on here, make a few bucks. Have a few different volumes.

The smaller shows I have been to this year, the judges need help.
Buddy system needs to go. But small clubs could not use a panel.

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Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gr.WCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Crystal
Ntch. GrCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Magic
Gr.Nt.Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Hawk
Nt. Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Rage
all are gone now but will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN


CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

dum dee dum still twiddlin' my thumbs .Waitin' for an answer ?dumdee dum dum............

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

first off, how you been? well I hope. you and I go way back. times have changed. my opinion...ukc doesn't need to answer. not in all the years of bench shows has anything ever been recorded. why do we need it you have a breed standard. read it. learn it. it tells you the basics. if you are going to judge? then know what you are judging..or better still...don't get a license to appease a club, or a buddy. or for the hell of it!!! I waited a long time before I ever judged. and I certainly self-trained to know why coonhounds need to be built a certain way. and none are perfect. everyone is critical of handlers. i'm tired of that garbage! get off your butt and train your hound to show. think they just throw them up there? some do. you get a hound ready for the hunts, why do you feel shows should be any different. when a good handler wins with a nice hound, congratulate them and get ready for the next event. good sportsmanship is important and your actions in public speak volumes.

stop giving ukc heck for lousy judges. they can't control who applies. just read the rules for a license. it is no Chinese jigsaw! clubs hire members as they can't afford to pay some to come any distance. many times I just had a meal and didn't worry about the costs.and no. not all people are qualified. and it is a very disappointing moment when you don't feel you got a fair chance! been there...done that, as they say. if you feel a club is member picking only? don't go back. if they don't have anyone there, they'll fold or stop holding event.

as for same bsj's at larger events? if they are qualified, that is what is important. a few might not have been satisfactory, but you don't see them being used much either.

Pat, thank you for the post. I hope my reply is not offending...but older now and just love how much advancement has been made over the years. God Bless....

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AMAZEN COONHOUNDS

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Naw not offended.
I am not giving anyone heck either.
What I am saying is we need better imformation available to competitors as well as BSJ's.
The reply was swift when I complained of the lack of proper judging skills or should I say uniformity in compehending what is proper.( Sorry,I am not patting anyone on the back when they do a lousy job at anything just to not hurt their feelings.)
The reply is slow in coming when I offer a solution to the problem.

What I am saying is we need a solid uniform basis to what is proper and improper when evaluating a dog on the ground and bench .Forget the standards .Everyone can read those. I am talking about what is unwritten .
The angulations,strengths,weakness,proper gaits,etc.
We are suppose to evaluate a dogs gait.Show me anywhere in the rule book that tells anyone let alone a BSJ what exactly we are looking for when the dog is gaiting?
You hit the nail on the head with one statement....YOU SELF TRAINED!!!
Everything a BSJ does is learned from self experience or other judges .How does any judge know that the imformation they are using is actually correct?
Heck, I don't even know of what I use is correct.How can I ? How can any judge?
THERE ARE NO PUBLISHED GUIDELINES!!!Just your standards are published.

The last time anything was published in Bloodlines has been about 2 years or so.
There is a rules interpretations for the Nite hunts every month.

For instance ;
When should a dog with undershot or overshot teeth be DQ"d ?
When is too little of Brindle on a Plott?
How many ticks is a fault on a Walker?
What is too dark or too light in a bluetick?
What exactly is a judge looking for when a dog is gaiting from the front,back ,and side view.
Describe what is over angulation or under angulation?
How do you determine a dog that is shallow in its chest depth?
When is a dogs rib cage oversprung or too narrow?
There are newcomers to showing that don't have the slightest idea as to what a judge is looking for on the bench.

You open the Advisor and you can get a life time experience of learning the hunt rules quickly.

I would like to see equal consideration given to the show exhibitors and BSJ's by UKC publishing the same interpretations for bench shows as there are for the Nite hunts .
That is all I am asking.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Pell City, AL
Posts: 243

I agree, I come from conformation and it was astonishing to me there was not more education from the breed clubs to the bench show judges. I come from Dachshunds originally,Westminster breed winners at that, and our breed club has an illustrated standard, http://dachshund-dca.org/Judges%20E...edcomprehe.html , this is what is taught to judges. At our nationals, equal to Autumn Oaks, we have ringside mentoring for prospective judges. It's free and it's the only way that judge will be allowed to judge at our national. Though there's always going to be multiple interpretations because everyone likes different things, there needs to be a general standard to weed out the constant argument over what's correct and not. Like how angled a dog should be and what's over angled, how tight a dogs feet should be and what's to tight, what depth of chest is enough to allow full front movement, and what is restricting to a dog. Form follows function right? So if I have a dog who may not have the best feet or head but his gait covers ground and he has proper angles and a proper body does that dog trump a dog who's feet are perfect and head is flawless with an awful standstill swing leg hackney gate and super straight angles? These are questions as breeders we have to ask ourselves. We are breeding in form and out function and its going to ruin certain breeds. Judges are looking at what wins and assuming that is correct when it really may not be correct.
Thanks for reading

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