Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4502

I disagree about the guardian of the breed standards. I think the BREEDER is the guardian, since they are the ones that are creating what the BSJs are looking at. the BSJ is supposed to use the standards to evaluate what is presented to them and try to uphold them and pick what best represents the standard. but the breeder is responsible for CREATING the dog that best represent the standards that they should be striving to maintain.

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2012 National Grand Show Champion, World Show Bluetick Female CCH GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Blame it on the Rain (Rain)
2012 Purina Show Bluetick Breed Winner GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Grt Balls o' Fire (Jerry Lee)
2013 World Champion Bluetick, 2013 AO Overall Bred By winner GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It (breeder)
2015 AO Overall Dual Champion NTCH GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It (breeder/owner/handler)
2016 Grand American Overall Dual Ch, Overall Show CHampion NTCH GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It

AKC CSG, UKC CCH GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Bad News Bandit (Bandit)
2010 National Grand Champion Bluetick
2013 AO Bluetick Stud Dog winner

CCH GCH 'PR' Southern Flame Elvira - the one that started it all

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RIP Southern Flame Bad News Bandit (Bandit)

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

Not entirely so. If that were the case we would not have GSD's walking on their hocks today. Breeders are equally important, but judges keep the breeders true to the breed standard or allow the breed to shift.

What would have happened if judges refused to put up GSD's that walked on their hocks and judged true to preserving the breed standard? We would not be seeing them in the show ring! Breeders would not have gone that route with the breed. We would be seeing more correct GSD's to the breed standard. Judges don't have to put up a breeder's new fad, especially if it is against standards. Just like breeders don't have to breed to the standard.

There are breeders out there breeding a lot of dogs out of standards. What keeps them in check is the breed parent club and judges. I know a few breeding red and white walkers, merle pits, 150 lb malamutes, 120 lb goldens, red schipperkes, etc. The only thing that keeps such from becoming prolific is the breed parent clubs and judges keeping it out of,the show ring.

Not everybody who shows a dog knows their breed standard, I run into a lot that figure since it is purebred, comes from a certain breeder, or isn't altered that it is show quality and breeding quality. Even if their dog gets best of breed with no comp it is deemed a show quality dog and a lot of these people DO expect to breed. We all started somewhere and usually started very niave as to what we were diving into

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4502

so, breeders only breed the style that judges select???

that may be true in GSD but not in all breeds. if the breeder is honest w/ themselves and want to produce the all purpose dog (referring to hounds here), then they will breed to the standard - judges opinion be ****ed. if ALL breeders let the judge dictate what was correct there would not be many of the improvements that have come about in some of the breeds. there are some breeds that need help and need it bad, and yes part of that is due to the bsj picking certain styles or types or names and then everyone wanting to breed it (all grands to all grands just because its all grand) without regard to form/function/structure.

breeders need to be held to a higher standard and so does the registries they support. the ethics are disappearing and its becoming every person for themselves to heck with the rest.

there needs to be improvements on both sides and both sides need to hold the other accountable. if the bsj picks a dog(s) that is inferior something needs to be said to them, some sort of reeducation of sorts. there are officers/staff/field reps at most of the larger events. they see what is going on and hear the grumbling but yet NOTHING is or has been done to correct it. the registries also need to be held to a higher standard and feet to the fire for allowing these things to go on.

__________________
2012 National Grand Show Champion, World Show Bluetick Female CCH GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Blame it on the Rain (Rain)
2012 Purina Show Bluetick Breed Winner GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Grt Balls o' Fire (Jerry Lee)
2013 World Champion Bluetick, 2013 AO Overall Bred By winner GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It (breeder)
2015 AO Overall Dual Champion NTCH GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It (breeder/owner/handler)
2016 Grand American Overall Dual Ch, Overall Show CHampion NTCH GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It

AKC CSG, UKC CCH GRCH 'PR' Southern Flame Bad News Bandit (Bandit)
2010 National Grand Champion Bluetick
2013 AO Bluetick Stud Dog winner

CCH GCH 'PR' Southern Flame Elvira - the one that started it all

southernflamekennel@earthlink.net

RIP Southern Flame Elvira (the cornerstone of the kennel) 5/16/02-1/17/14

RIP Southern Flame Scarlet (the lone Redbone) 5/11/01-7/19/13

RIP Southern Flame Wild Irish Rose (Rosie) 6/15/09 - 3/12/15

RIP Southern Flame Too Hot to Trot (Bonnie) 3/27/07 - 4/20/15

RIP Southern Flame Bad News Bandit (Bandit)

RIP Southern Flame Triple Trouble (TT) 12/17/04 - 11/19/16

RIP Southern Flame Blame it on the Rain (Rain)

RIP AdeleMay's a Smokey Bandit (Adele)

RIP Southern Flame I Like Ike (Ike)

RIP Bella the Beagle

Bear, Jerry Lee, Camo, Maybellene, Lacy, Thor, Sissy, Merle, Tina, Bridgette - the Blueticks, Hollie - the Aussie

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: P.A.
Posts: 242

Glad to see people are talking about this. Tired of seeing dogs that are to straight in the back legs and peg legged in the front. We had a near perfect dog a few yrs back,we were told by a big name show person( no names) that we'd win more if we overstretched her. Also was told by another big name this last yr that gait isnt important,its only used to determine ties. Now and then we go to a few bigger shows,last yr was plott days and the world show, we dont plan on winning. But if one person stops by and compliments us,thats enough. One yr at plott days my wife showed our female,I was in the stands and had sat down near 2 older gentlemen who kept talking about the nice looking dog my wife was showing. I introduced myself and so did they... none other than Mr. Homon Fielder and Mr. Everett Weems. That was worth more to me than any trophy.......

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North Country Plotts

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Locust Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 508

Im enjoying reading it .


I notice a general " Lack of angulation " in most ( show bred) bench dogs.

Im glad to see it come up

One thing i have noticed is the dogs that win in the "big shows" are starting into AKC and UKC All Breed showing and MOST are not doing to hot. IMO its because the All Breed Judges are looking for movement and what i call bench bred dogs lack angulation ( most have decent fronts but no rear ) , so they are more or less getting dumped, because they dont have the extention in their movement .

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