Registered: Aug 2004
Location: ATKINS, AR
Posts: 685

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WLDCHINSANEJANE
[B]The countdown is a must. I don't care what breed your hunting, it has to make you sick when a dog covers yours 4 min in on a tree and is awarded 75 instead of 25. Leave the 125 along because a dog that trees first deserves that extra 25.


I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE. IT IS RIDICULOUS HOW SOME DOGS DO THIS AN WIN HUNTS. OUT OF ALL THE RULES THIS ONE BUGS ME THE MOST. I KNOW OF AN DOZEN PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO HUNT UKC BUT THEY SAID UNTIL THEY CHANGE THAT RULE YOU CAN FORGET IT. AN I DONT MUCH BLAME THEM.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Tonasket,Washington
Posts: 923

I also would like something to be done about leashlocking when there is a dog out competeing for strike even though one or more are treed.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

That countdown rule works both ways.
A good handler can now take less minus than his dog deserves.
It sure changes a lot of handling strategys.
In my opinion it puts a bit more emphasis on handler than dog.
I feel the countdown has been a factor in the flood of these so called" independent" dogs that refuse to compete against another dog for the same coon, which can hide an assortment of faults that used to get them culled, now some are big winners and get many females bred to them.

Last edited by elvis on 08-08-2008 at 02:40 AM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

quote:

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Originally posted by Pigeon
Who cares if the dog dont go hunting? Let them all stand by my feet for 30 minutes. Should be easy pickens.

How many babblers have won the UKC world hunt?

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why would anyone be worried about someone elses dog getting 75 on second tree if his dog can get a 125 first tree. sounds like to many people have dogs that they are worried can't get to the tree 1st. i bet if they needed the 75 to win the cast ahead of the other dog treed for 125 they would tree their dog for 75!!!

ukc should keep their rules as is, they have worked for to many years. if they changed the rules they would have every second place event winner griping saying if they would have only had that rule when i was hunting in last years hunt i would have won.
i hope ukc sticks to their guns and keeps things as they are, lot less confussion.

Last edited by on 08-08-2008 at 05:49 AM

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

i dont understand, if you guys are gettin 1st tree all the time with a coon why would people care who got second tree ? it sounds to me like you guys are gettin 1st tree every time you hunt & your dog never takes a second tree. dont forget this is ukc not pkc, you got to have plus points. circle dont mean squat !! & you will minus out at 400- so if all you people are huntin this much power, why do you worry about 2nd tree so much !! yeah i'v been beat by me to dogs but it dont happen very often, most of the time that handler had a better dog that night even if it was a me to dog !! it come out on top. the world didnt end because this dog won that night !! if your gettin beat that much by me to dogs maybe you better take a close look in your back yard !! you make it sound like this is just the most terrable thing in the world for a dog to take second tree !! do you really think if a dog comes treed 1 minute after another its a me to dog,i dont think so, do you really think if a dog comes treed 2 minutes after its a me to dog, i dont think so !! if your dog is so fast it can out track these other dogs, you should have 1st tree. so what i'm saying is if your gettin beat by a plug that much, you got to be huntin a plug !! KEEP THIS RULE THE SAME I MIGHT NEED 2ND TREE TOMORROW NIGHT; LOL

i knowed an english dog that could not even tree a coon by his self that made ntch. with 3 1st in a row me toin !! he could be 500 yards away you let a dog locate & the guy would tree this dog and he'd be there in about 30 seconds !! i never drawed this dog in a hunt but i pleasure hunted with him. this dog was a master me to dog !! LOL

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Registered: Feb 2008
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ITS THE PIGGY BACK DOGS THAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIE ABOUT. IF YOU LIKE THEM KEEP HUNTING THEM . I WILL HUNT A INDEPENDENTS DOGS.

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Last edited by Maniac on 08-08-2008 at 08:25 AM

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

thats what i'm saying, when i go to a hunt i aint worried about any dog i draw, except a mean one, i go out & call my dog & if i win i win, if not theres always next we. i cant control what anybody else is huntin, but i know what i'm huntin & i garrent if i cant compete, i will find some thing that can, last hunt i was in my dog treed twice by his self, treed 1st & he got covered on a tree & i got shut out on strick & covered another dog on the last tree. i was a happy joe to take second tree !! this could have been just the opisite the next night !! & yes there was a coon in all 4 tree's. all i'm saying is why complain about some one elses dog that you aint got no control over & if you get beat, hey thats coon huntin !!

about the dog under your feet, if this dog is under your feet & you get beat because you walked this dog by a coon track & it treed a coon on the way to your dogs tree, sounds like that dog is passing coons up that could have been treed & was ether slick or no coon or you are not gettin fist tree because this dog under your feet got last strike. i'm not trying to be smart but you never know whats going to happen in a hunt till the fat lady sings !! all you can do is go out & have fun & let the chips fall were they fall any dog can win on a given night !!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I don't think anyone is saying that the tree point system in UKC is hopelessly broken.....it works for some, and truthfully, it works for most...most of the time.

After this many years, we are talking about "fine tuning" the rules and point system to make them better... Those that are commenting are simply doing what they think would make sure that "the best dog wins"...using the fact that the dog that trees the coon first is the best...

Now that might not meet everyone's criteria of the best dog, but that is why there are more points given to the first dog treed.......

If we were honest with ourselves, that babbler that is 1/4 mile away when a dog trees and he shuts up and "covers" 4 minutes later....probably should be minused his strike points...he quit that track to cover in a lot of cases...but that's not gonna happen even when every honest hunter in the cast knows what he did....

So what are the options? The only viable option is to decrease the number of points awarded for covering after a set amount of time.....it's not perfect, but it's closer to awarding the dog that did the better job of locating the coon.....

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Symsonia, Ky
Posts: 417

roughcreek i agree ,100% if a dog is call for what he does, most time if they are coon dogs they win. pkc has a good set rules for the type of hunts, don,t have to tree nogthing, or do enything to win, akc i don,t really know, but on some of there hunts enything wins. ukc if you don,t cheat you are suppose to tree a coon, no use to try and change those rules to fit a dog that cain,t tree a coon.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1

I think if a tree is scored and there is no hole in it and the coon cannot be found the tree should be minused and not circled. I get tired of walking to trees and the coon cant be found and they circle it. This would eliminate a lot of the slick treeing dogs with big titles. It would also make the sport a lot more honest and fair.
Alot of peope say that there could be a coon up there but why reward a dog for coming up short? I would rather win with a coon dog than the first treed dog.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Change the circle trees.Thats fine with me..One thing you have to think about..Where is your dog while all these circle slicks are getting made?? A COONDOG will be off treeing coons.So it should not matter if the other dogs make 10 circle trees a night!

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 168

I don't understand how some of you say that you are "rewarding" a dog with circle. How many casts have you been on that were descided by circle points? I have been on several ukc casts and I can't remember one of them being won on circle.

The most important part is the people who are complaining are usually the same ones that have a dog that is backing on everyone of these trees. Which is worse a dog that makes a slick or a dog that backs on a slick?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

I've been on several casts that if those circle trees were minused then it would change who wins. Avoiding minus is the same thing as more plus when it comes time to tally up the score.

I don't know how you are going to get more trees scored minus, if they are empty. If a coon can be there, then you have to give the dog the benefit of the doubt whether its a den, squirrel's nest or just a jungle.

If you do minus a tree that has a coon you can't see, then you've made a bigger mistake than circling an empty tree. Because, now the dog that treed it and maybe has 175 points riding on it, gets hurt more than the dog that tagged along and just has 50 points at stake. So, no rule that I've heard mentioned is going to help with getting empty trees minused, if a majority doesn't see it that way.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Tonasket,Washington
Posts: 923

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
I don't know how you are going to get more trees scored minus, if they are empty. If a coon can be there, then you have to give the dog the benefit of the doubt whether its a den, squirrel's nest or just a jungle.

If you do minus a tree that has a coon you can't see, then you've made a bigger mistake than circling an empty tree. Because, now the dog that treed it and maybe has 175 points riding on it, gets hurt more than the dog that tagged along and just has 50 points at stake. So, no rule that I've heard mentioned is going to help with getting empty trees minused, if a majority doesn't see it that way.

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__________________
Home of Strawberry Mt Kennels
Never underestimate the Power of Hillbilly Mac and Southern Sound
Nt Ch Owens Glassy Mt Skip
Nt Ch Southern Sound Jimbo
Gr Nt Ch Ch Southern Sound Matlock
Gr Nt Ch Strawberry Mt Korn
Pr Strawberry Mt Sadie
The reason I hunt this bloodlines is a quote an old friend gave me,"Your either making dust or your eating it."

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

a good example for circle, i was in a hunt last night we made a tree i found the coon in the last 3 minutes while we could squal the tree & one other hunter seen it, i seen it again coming down the tree. 10 minutes run out, then the whole cast seen it. are you going to minus this tree or circle it.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: West Ky
Posts: 744

I agree completely, minusing a dog because you can't find a coon in a matted up mess in a tree is just crazy. And for the people who say if he is there they can find him don't hunt some of the stuff I hunt.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

The point with all these circle trees is one word ACCOUNTABILITY. A dog that trees a possum has to account for that and take his minus. A dog that leaves a tree for any reason at all has to account for that and take his minus. A dog that quits a track has to account for that and take his minus. But a slick treeing dog is free from accountability for his actions. THATS THE POINT.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

He's 100% still accountable. Its just that you have to know whats going on to hold him accountable. In those other examples, its usually very clear when a dog trees offgame, leaves a tree or quits a track. Its usually not so clear whether there is a coon in alot of leafy, viney trees in the summertime.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen trees I thought were empty that were circled and that ain't right. But to penalize a dog for treeing a coon in a leafy tree doesn't make any more sense, imo.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
He's 100% still accountable. Its just that you have to know whats going on to hold him accountable. In those other examples, its usually very clear when a dog trees offgame, leaves a tree or quits a track. Its usually not so clear whether there is a coon in alot of leafy, viney trees in the summertime.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen trees I thought were empty that were circled and that ain't right. But to penalize a dog for treeing a coon in a leafy tree doesn't make any more sense, imo.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
He's 100% still accountable. Its just that you have to know whats going on to hold him accountable. In those other examples, its usually very clear when a dog trees offgame, leaves a tree or quits a track. Its usually not so clear whether there is a coon in alot of leafy, viney trees in the summertime.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen trees I thought were empty that were circled and that ain't right. But to penalize a dog for treeing a coon in a leafy tree doesn't make any more sense, imo.

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Registered: Not Yet
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So you bought a chiteater, what's your point?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
So you bought a chiteater, what's your point?

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
So you bought a chiteater, what's your point?

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

and throw a feeder bucket in the equation and thats just iceing on the cake.

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