Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

i did not say any thing about class. i said treedogs !!

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quote:

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Originally posted by roughcreek
i did not say any thing about class. i said treedogs !!

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I've seen 4 hard tree dogs on a single tree MANY times bumping and moving WITH NO FACE BARKING. I expect to see no face barking or fussing of any kind. Why do ya'll expect and except it!

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I dont expect it or except it. Ive had dogs that when they were young they face barked a litte. But as they got older they quit its mainly from pups inexperience and they dont know what they are doing. I havent hunted but with one face barker and that was on a hunt and he minused out because no dogs would back him and he would leave every tree.

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Registered: Aug 2006
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i dont expect to see it ether but it happens & the smaller the tree the more likely you are going to see a little blowing. if you go to a hunt with 4 strange dogs on one tree & you dont think you are going to see this once in a while your living in a dream world !! i dont say i think this is good i just know coon huntin & coondogs !! dont think i wont scratch an aggessive dog, i will scratch one in a heart beat !! yours, mine, i dont care. give me half a chance to scratch a rough dog, its a done deal !! a dog that is constantly blowing on a tree ( HE'S A SCRATCHED DOG ) I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE OR HOW MAD YOU GET !! NO SECOND CHANCE NO WARNING, THAT DOG IS SCRATCHED & WROTE UP !!

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Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:

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Originally posted by roughcreek
a dog that is constantly blowing on a tree ( HE'S A SCRATCHED DOG ) I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE OR HOW MAD YOU GET !! NO SECOND CHANCE NO WARNING, THAT DOG IS SCRATCHED & WROTE UP !!

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Last edited by RedBones4me on 07-04-2008 at 09:05 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
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I said I don't expect or except face barking, didn't say I haven't seen it. Most casts I've been on there is none going on and when there is you know it.

Roughcreek, as much as I would like to scratch dogs that are bad face barkers you CAN NOT scratch unless they are interfering with another dog. Example: you have a dog face barking and not letting the other dogs on the tree when they try to get on the tree, scratch him. If he's face barking and the other dogs back up and keep treeing and DO NOT TRY to get on the tree you can not scratch him.

I don't fully agree with the rule interpertation but that's it and that's how you judge it. If you can not or will not judge it as UKC interperts the rule then DON"T JUDGE!

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Cental Texas
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If you have a face barking dog, you don't want to draw me either. Face barking, if it is any more than just a little incidental look and bark, is going to get you scratched. If the face barker is trying to intimidate the other dogs, HE IS INTERFEARING WITH THOSE DOGS. And, for sure, face barking is agressive behavior. So why in the world are some of you making excusses. Just do what is RIGHT, scratch these dogs and stop all this foolish denial.
For the life of me, I can not understand how anyone wants to look the other way when the rules are plain. And not only that the rules are plain, these dogs are not good for our sport.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
If you have a face barking dog, you don't want to draw me either. Face barking, if it is any more than just a little incidental look and bark, is going to get you scratched. If the face barker is trying to intimidate the other dogs, HE IS INTERFEARING WITH THOSE DOGS. And, for sure, face barking is agressive behavior. So why in the world are some of you making excusses. Just do what is RIGHT, scratch these dogs and stop all this foolish denial.
For the life of me, I can not understand how anyone wants to look the other way when the rules are plain. And not only that the rules are plain, these dogs are not good for our sport.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

that is exactly right, it is interferance & aggessive behavior with another dog, if this dog is staying in another dogs face trying to blow it off the tree !!

as far as me carring the score card, i go out to have fun. this is just a game to me & the sun will still rise in the morning if i get beat !! i never have some of the stupid problems that are brought up on the computer. if there is a question or someone is not sure of a call or ruling. we discuss it like gentelmen check the rules on the back of the score card. if someone does not like the ruling i put a question on the card & we go on & have a good time !! if we think we are having a problem with an aggressive dog everybody knows it before we get to the tree !! & we all go in TOGETHER !! no questions if a dog gets scratched !! everybody see's it & everybody has a say in scratching this dog or dogs but i will make the final dissision if i'm carrying score card !! anybody raise thier voice or cuss anybody on the cast they will be scratched !! i am give the score card most of the time at any of our local clubs for this reason !! no problems, no questions, no arguing & everybody has a good time !! no you probly would not like for me to carry the card !!

i was at a hunt last weekend, dogs made 3 tree's together not the 1st off bark. 4th tree 3 dogs treed in, there was a little squable at the tree. we all went in together dogs were treed on the side of a creek on a small leaning tree about a foot through with just enough room for 1 dog to stand on tree, one dog is in the tree about 4 feet the others are knocking each other off the tree trying to stay on it a blow here & there but no harm. this is what i'm trying to say you know if a dog or dogs needs to be scratched !!

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
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Most dogs that blow are typically doing it because another dog came in about 3-4 minutes after the tree had been made. That dog deserves to be blown on for covering that late anyways!!!

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Cental Texas
Posts: 653

MR GFULTS,
First let me say, please don't cross the 'gentleman line'.

Now to answer your question. Yes, I have been hunting for just a few hunts. I won my first UKC Hunt in 1963. That was 45 years ago. I have owned many Nite Champions and Grand Nite Champions. I hunt both pleasure and competition because I enjoy my dogs. They are not the best, but they are also not 'culls" I have been a MOH for close to 20 years. Because I have to work 5 or 6 days a week and my wife is on dialysis, I'm not able to follow the Purina points or hunt a lot in the major large hunts. We do make as many local and Bluetick Hunts as possible. Most of the time when I hunt, I am ask to carry the card.

If you ever draw me as a judge, you can flip the card over if you like. It still reads 'aggressive behavior' and 'interference'. Face barking with the intent to back a dog off the tree meets both critera. Your dog will get scratched. AND most every other hunter will sure vote to let that ruleing stand. Most hunters don't want to hunt their dogs with facebarkers. It is just wrong behavior in that dog.

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Location: Disputanta, Virginia
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
If you ever draw me as a judge, you can flip the card over if you like. It still reads 'aggressive behavior' and 'interference'. Face barking with the intent to back a dog off the tree meets both critera. Your dog will get scratched.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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And I have run into people like you......
there is a new generation of hunters, that have the mentality that mean is 'fangs and blood'.
The rules still read 'aggressive' - that includes face backing
and 'interferance' - if it effects the treeing of another dog .... that does not mean that the other dog has to leave and be minused... the word is plan 'interference' means to hinder or have an effect on. They don't have to be rolling in the mud to be effected or huindered.
These facebarking dogs are always just one step from a dog fight. Why hunt them in hunts? If you want to hunt them with your own dogs that is your business. But I'm not going to pay an entry fee, so a person can hunt that kind of dog with mine. That dog is going to get scratched, and the rest of the cast will go on and have a good time. Hunting should be fun, not a worrying about a dog fight all night.

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Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
And I have run into people like you......
there is a new generation of hunters, that have the mentality that mean is 'fangs and blood'.
The rules still read 'aggressive' - that includes face backing
and 'interferance' - if it effects the treeing of another dog .... that does not mean that the other dog has to leave and be minused... the word is plan 'interference' means to hinder or have an effect on. They don't have to be rolling in the mud to be effected or huindered.
These facebarking dogs are always just one step from a dog fight. Why hunt them in hunts? If you want to hunt them with your own dogs that is your business. But I'm not going to pay an entry fee, so a person can hunt that kind of dog with mine. That dog is going to get scratched, and the rest of the cast will go on and have a good time. Hunting should be fun, not a worrying about a dog fight all night.

---

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

jerry west, you are exactly right a dog that is staying in another dogs face is one step way from a dog fight !! this kind of dog is ill no to ways about it !! i would not own an ill dog & i would never put a dog in a hunt that might interfer with another mans dog by constantly face barking or any other illness !! i do not own a dog that will be run off a tree or bullyed on a tree or allow a dog to stay in its face !! any man that would put this type dog in a hunt cares only about his self & winning at any cost !! anybody that will make excusses for this type dog is the same way !! if it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck, its got to be a duck !!

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Dale,
I think that old saying is actually:

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

Face barking is a scratch if the judge and one thinks it is.......or if three think it is.
Forget about the MOH changing anything, it is judgement and the outcome of the vote will almost never be overruled. Same for the formal complaint process. In this instance, again, it is a judgement and you aren't likely to see UKC overrule a judge or majority cast vote on a judgement call.
So in the real world, facebarking is a scratch when the judge or cast vote says it is. If the judge or a majority say it isn't, then it isn't.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: N.C.
Posts: 305

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Dale,
I think that old saying is actually:

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

Face barking is a scratch if the judge and one thinks it is.......or if three think it is.
Forget about the MOH changing anything, it is judgement and the outcome of the vote will almost never be overruled. Same for the formal complaint process. In this instance, again, it is a judgement and you aren't likely to see UKC overrule a judge or majority cast vote on a judgement call.
So in the real world, facebarking is a scratch when the judge or cast vote says it is. If the judge or a majority say it isn't, then it isn't.

---

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Marshall Tarlton
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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Disputanta, Virginia
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Dale,
I think that old saying is actually:

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

---

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Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 121

Scratch only the agressor. the other dogs were just defending themselves.

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Cental Texas
Posts: 653

NO WAY does a dog just facebark because another dog covers his tree. That dog facebarks because he is mean and wants the other dog to leave HIS tree.
AND NO I don't want to scratch a dog just because he is ahead and I want to get him out of the hunt.

Back to facts, if a dog facebarks (aggressive behavior) and trys to back another dog away from the tree (interference), then that dog, according to the rules, will get scratched. 9 out of 10 hunters will aggree with that. The only ones that I have ever seen get upset about it are people that are hunting mean dogs.

In the last 10 years, I have had to leave three laying in the woods. I did it with a broken heart, but facebarking dogs are going to lead to mean dogs.
ABOUT 15 years ago, I hurt my relationship with a good friend because I kept hunting a real coondog that was getting aggressive. I let it go uintil it ended in a dog fight. I have never forgiven myself. And it will not happen again. I promise you and him "it will not, if I can do anything to prevent it".

Also, my best friend and hunting buddy for many years, bought a pup about 16 months ago. At the age of 7 or 8 months he started just a little facebacking. Around the tree or just when we turned loose. He tried to correct it. But to no real success. This young dog continued to get just a little more agressive inch by inch. Finally, I stopped hunting with by best friend. Not that I was afraid that this year old dog was going to ruin or chew up one of my dogs. I just do not want any of my dogs getting started in this behavior. At last, the dog had to be killed. He had begun to started fights with any male that would stand up to him. I truly felt sorry for my friend. He had so much hope for this 'very good breed pup.'

You see fellows, facebarking hurts more than a night hunt.

Don't make excuses because others will not.

__________________
Allbluez51@aol.com
Gone, But not forgotten!
Ch Gr Nite Ch Nolan Creek Go-Yonder Rowdy (Grandson of Spare Time Spanky)
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chief's Pride (Grandson and greatgrandson to Smokey River Chief)
Dual Ch Nolan Creek Thundering Apache
Nite Ch Gr Ch Nolan Creek Blue Sable
Dual Ch Nolan Crk Diamond HTX2

Still Standing Proud!!
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chug-A-Lug
Gr CH Nolan Creek Pride's Joy
Ch Nolan Creek Lonesome Dove

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: OXFORD NC
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quote:

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Originally posted by Treed First
Mr. West has it dead on target here... Excellantly put and what he said is the truth.

This thread is turned into the most rediculous reading I have ever saw. Why do you guys put up with any of that aggresive stuff in your dogs? I wouldn't put up with it for 3 seconds !!! The dogs I have will either stop aggresive behaviour immediately or I will cave their head in . The choice is theirs. I cant see why anyone wants to put up with it , unless it is to run somebodys elses dog off tree so they can win more oftin.

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Dale, I agree with you completely. But if the judge or a majority scratches the dog it will almost certainly stay scratched after the process is completed. So face barking is scratchable when they say it is. That is the bottom line.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: N.C.
Posts: 305

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Dale, I agree with you completely. But if the judge or a majority scratches the dog it will almost certainly stay scratched after the process is completed. So face barking is scratchable when they say it is. That is the bottom line.

---

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Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Dale, I agree with you completely. But if the judge or a majority scratches the dog it will almost certainly stay scratched after the process is completed. So face barking is scratchable when they say it is. That is the bottom line.

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