Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9267

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
But you have no idea what it is running or what has been treed until it is seen 😉.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Not so much on short game but believe it or not I can tell on long game by the way the tracks laid.



Tar

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
There are many very good honest judges in this sport but there are also to many unscrupulous judges and cast members to have a rule like this. Also, as Toad Hill mentioned the knowing of how a dog runs a track when they have never hunted with a dog and are now judging on what they "think" a dog is doing. Example, there is a dog in the cast that can flat out fly on the ground, he must be running a deer no other dog in the cast is moving like that he is scratched a short time later the dog trees with a coon. Even if this judge honestly thought the dog was running a deer it wasn't or what if you drew the cast of unscrupulous handlers and your dog was beating the pants off them it's to tempting of a way to eliminate competition. Put it on the flip side and have an exceptional slow track dog who beats and bangs around on a track it could be said he is cold trailing a coyote and it could be scratched.
You mention that judges judge what they cannot see throughout the rest of the cast. Judges take strike and tree calls based on hearing a dog bark when the dog is moving and tree calls when it is stationary. Neither are difficult or require any interpretation by the judge it is just moving or not. And also not scratchable.
This decision to allow a non-hunting judge or judge and cast members whether honest or not the the ability to scratch their competition is a bad move. It should be policy to allow all dogs to compete for the entire hunt unless their is zero doubt that a dog or handler needs scratched leaving decisions up to things you cannot see nor accurately judge is leaves to much leeway for error of judgement or the bad apples to take advantage of a rule.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

The more I think about it, the more I have to agree with you, regarding the way we prepared for hunts back in the day. I pleasure hunted the same dogs that I competition hunted and did not put up with any foolish behavior from my dogs. Shorter hunts, less competition today, doesn't take as much preparing, good or bad, it's just the way it is. Personally, I just can't take winning with a leaves on type of dog, mine better win with the leaves off. Dave

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Not so much on short game but believe it or not I can tell on long game by the way the tracks laid.



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: milan,mi
Posts: 1379

Here's a novel idea for ukc. Put the adviser on line in a pdf format with a search option capability. Run into a situation you type a couple words and presto up comes a couple of been there done that and here's how we ruled. Problem solved.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

Allen ,

In the winter time here a BIG hill country boar will run like a Cheetah and take you on an Adventure .( I actually had this type of race Fri night.) I highly advise you to leave your TT15 at home if it parallels your logic of scratching a dog cause if you ever come down to hunt you may just ruin that dog of yours

BTW , you never did answer my question either.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
But are you willing to let someone else scratch your dog off mere speculation? The object should be to let dogs compete not to eliminate competition of speculation, there is way to much room for abuse without having to see it. After all we are talking about scratching dogs from a hunt not minusing them for leaving a tree.

And Clif Owen your dog should not have been scratched. Notice the 2nd part of the definition of Fighting or Attempting to fight includes interference, it does not say or it says and in reference to interfere.. Did your dog interfere with the other dogs ability to tree? Did any dogs take a minus from your dog interfering with them? This also brings up the reason that a dog fighting in the dog box isn't scratched. No dogs were interfered with during this fight or attempt to do so. Both criteria need to be met. Something a judge cannot do from afar either.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2767

It has always been my understanding that interference is only required to meet the criteria for "attempting to fight". Fighting is fighting no interference required.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
It has always been my understanding that interference is only required to meet the criteria for "attempting to fight". Fighting is fighting no interference required.

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Seneca , MO
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2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

Alan I have another one for you ,
4 dog cast all dogs are struck in my dog comes back you minus him strike points but he has the strong smell of skunk on him are you scratching me?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

An honest handler would just snap his dog and head to the truck. Why would the judge have to scratch you? Rule says dogs are scratched for molesting or trailing off game.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Heck no !! Long as they are struck and bark enough not to get minused its up to them to show me a coon on the end. Let them run all night I don't care hopefully mine will be treeing coons while they are doing it lol.


Tar

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The rule says that if a dog in a Nt Ch cast runs off game they are scratched. If your dog runs a deer shouldn't you tell the judge to scratch him? Is it fair to just hope that he quits it and drops off on a deer.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The rule says that if a dog in a Nt Ch cast runs off game they are scratched. If your dog runs a deer shouldn't you tell the judge to scratch him? Is it fair to just hope that he quits it and drops off on a deer.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Not all handlers have the HONOR to minus/scratch their own dog in those cases. They are hoping for a free pass. If everyone was honest and always done the HONORABLE and correct thing, we wouldn't need as many RULES or laws. Unfortunately, it's just not the way things are, and all the rules/laws won't change a thing ! It's like venomous snakes, we have them around, we just don't always know where they are, so we have to watch carefully. No HONOR among crooks/cheats, to them it's not cheating if they don't get caught. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Allen ,

In the winter time here a BIG hill country boar will run like a Cheetah and take you on an Adventure .( I actually had this type of race Fri night.) I highly advise you to leave your TT15 at home if it parallels your logic of scratching a dog cause if you ever come down to hunt you may just ruin that dog of yours

BTW , you never did answer my question either.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Alan I have another one for you ,
4 dog cast all dogs are struck in my dog comes back you minus him strike points but he has the strong smell of skunk on him are you scratching me?

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I will answer that ,no , Surely you can do better than that

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
First off I find it HILARIOUS that you would know my dog better than i so lets just say this....
If my dog was "possibly" running junk and you "thought" it was and you scratched me to get an advantage cause im putting it on you and you are wanting to eliminate me and then a few minutes later my dog gets treed . Then What ?

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I d say you should have known the rules better if you allow that to happen . Gota do better than that

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JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: wyandotte,ok
Posts: 2114

Allen you know as well as I do we can work on rule changes for days on days and submit 10 or was it 11 and not even one get approved. Remember that.
So here's my thought on this everyone needs to submit there rule changes to there breeds let there breeds review those rule changes and then they submit them to UKC after they have reviewed them. UKC then reviews them and then put them on here to voted on by the public and not just two reps from each breed.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
I will answer that ,no , Surely you can do better than that

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