Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

We sure do need consistency. What was the panel's reasoning behind not scratching the handler for shaking vines in that World Hunt? I don't remember that one.

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Tell that to the English boys from Tennessee that got scratched for taking a rock and hitting on a den tree, they had the World Hunt won if they don't get scratched. I believe the judge told him it was okay, might be wrong, he was scratched none the less. Handlers have to be responsible for what they do, regardless of what anyone feels is a no foul issue. Dave

Tell that to Greg Lewis that had a Truck Hunt won in PKC, 2 COONS AHEAD AND GOT SCRATCHED ON THE STATIONARY RULE, Tam Young won that hunt with no points I believe. Handlers mess up sometimes in the pressure of a hunt and both of these cases did not hurt any other dog, but they lost the Hunt anyway. I feel like Mark Zepps post was spot on. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 10-05-2021 at 10:32 PM

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Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Ken, you have my respect as a breeder and trying to get the very best dogs you can get, but you already know that titles mean nothing. You only get the genetics of any dog you breed, not the title of that dog. Some dogs reproduce and some dogs do not, it's a crap shoot when breeding any dog. A registered dog with the right genetics is way more than a World Champion that can not reproduce. I have always liked the dogs you have and you have won your share, but as you stated some judges will use loop holes to scratch their competition and no the best dog does not always win. Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
Was this situation one of those loopholes? Lol. I must not be very slick because I don’t know all of the loopholes yet.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 10-06-2021 at 02:42 AM

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Location: Monticello, Wi
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Cancel Culture is the new political correct term for loophole in the rules where the original intent of a rule is bypassed to permit the opposite result to occur. Awarding minus point or scratching the best dog in the cast because the other dogs do not have the performance capacity to win in one on one competition. Its a situation where the Honor Rules Section does not apply. JMO

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 89

part of the democrat party play book is to just ignore the situation till it just goes away, i guess we know what party the ukc brass belong to. cancel culture is maybe what it is, common sense is what its not. JMO

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 89

part of the democrat party play book is to just ignore the situation till it just goes away, i guess we know what party the ukc brass belong to. cancel culture is maybe what it is, common sense is what its not. JMO

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What "situation" is being ignored? There was a question and the panel ruled on it. Hunt went on and World Champion was crowned. Everyone in the cast knows what happened as well as a couple thousand other actual hunters who cared enough to contact someone that was in the cast. The man that was guiding the cast even posted the details of what happened. Surely everyone knows by now what happened, what rule was involved, what the question was and how the panel ruled. There have been more than 6,000 views and 57 replies. It sure hasn't been ignored. Y'all are just trying to bully Allen or Trevor into making a post.

UKC hunters make the rules through their reps. Hunters cancelled the no squalling or vine shaking rule. They cancelled the no signature rule. They cancelled the score card without a plus/minus/circle/delete rule. Sounds like the hunters/handlers have been part of the cancel culture way before there even was a cancel culture.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-06-2021 at 07:15 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What "situation" is being ignored? There was a question and the panel ruled on it. Hunt went on and World Champion was crowned. Everyone in the cast knows what happened as well as a couple thousand other actual hunters who cared enough to contact someone that was in the cast. The man that was guiding the cast even posted the details of what happened. Surely everyone knows by now what happened, what rule was involved, what the question was and how the panel ruled. There have been more than 6,000 views and 57 replies. It sure hasn't been ignored. Y'all are just trying to bully Allen or Trevor into making a post.

UKC hunters make the rules through their reps. Hunters cancelled the no squalling or vine shaking rule. They cancelled the no signature rule. They cancelled the score card without a plus/minus/circle/delete rule. Sounds like the hunters/handlers have been part of the cancel culture way before there even was a cancel culture.

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Last edited by treedog2345 on 10-06-2021 at 08:07 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What "situation" is being ignored? There was a question and the panel ruled on it. Hunt went on and World Champion was crowned. Everyone in the cast knows what happened as well as a couple thousand other actual hunters who cared enough to contact someone that was in the cast. The man that was guiding the cast even posted the details of what happened. Surely everyone knows by now what happened, what rule was involved, what the question was and how the panel ruled. There have been more than 6,000 views and 57 replies. It sure hasn't been ignored. Y'all are just trying to bully Allen or Trevor into making a post.

UKC hunters make the rules through their reps. Hunters cancelled the no squalling or vine shaking rule. They cancelled the no signature rule. They cancelled the score card without a plus/minus/circle/delete rule. Sounds like the hunters/handlers have been part of the cancel culture way before there even was a cancel culture.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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First off, congrats to Rickey on winning the world hunt, second, congrats to all 3 fine hounds and handlers making the final cast! Huge accomplishment. I know all 3 handlers and even got to judge miney and Gerald in the heads up round, good guy with a good dog. I know all the panel members that were there that night. I know the guide. I've heard some/not everyone's testimony. When you break it down, it doesnt matter which way you cut it, Gerald made a mistake (rule 11, implied or not) and it cost his hound. There are zero people posting on this forum or hunting in the hunts that can HONESTLY say that they would not have questioned the judges call on this, especially in the world hunt final cast!!! Come on people! And I can personally promise you that if this were a true mis communication between judge and handler, the panel would not have scratched him. All of the the handlers and the judge told the panel what happened and the panel decided, that's the way it works. It's not always gonna prevail your way and sometimes it will. It's just part of it. It's just as much the handlers responsibility to know the rules as it is the hounds responsibly to do his or her job!! Congrats to the final 3 and good luck next year, I'm sure all 3 of you and your hounds will be in the winners circle alot more!

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quote:

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Originally posted by tpettit
First off, congrats to Rickey on winning the world hunt, second, congrats to all 3 fine hounds and handlers making the final cast! Huge accomplishment. I know all 3 handlers and even got to judge miney and Gerald in the heads up round, good guy with a good dog. I know all the panel members that were there that night. I know the guide. I've heard some/not everyone's testimony. When you break it down, it doesnt matter which way you cut it, Gerald made a mistake (rule 11, implied or not) and it cost his hound. There are zero people posting on this forum or hunting in the hunts that can HONESTLY say that they would not have questioned the judges call on this, especially in the world hunt final cast!!! Come on people! And I can personally promise you that if this were a true mis communication between judge and handler, the panel would not have scratched him. All of the the handlers and the judge told the panel what happened and the panel decided, that's the way it works. It's not always gonna prevail your way and sometimes it will. It's just part of it. It's just as much the handlers responsibility to know the rules as it is the hounds responsibly to do his or her job!! Congrats to the final 3 and good luck next year, I'm sure all 3 of you and your hounds will be in the winners circle alot more!

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Dave your fingers must have blisters from all those posts.

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Oh my goodness, a "true rock solid statement" about a coon hunt? What world are you living in?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ricochet17
Dave your fingers must have blisters from all those posts.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I can promise you I would not have questioned the call. I can think of a few that would have but I can proudly state that I would not stoop to that level I don’t care how big of a hunt it was. In my mind and many others there will forever be an asterisk beside this years winner. I am just amazed that a panel allowed this tactic to remove the cast leader. I will say no more on the matter.

Last edited by elvis on 10-07-2021 at 02:32 AM

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Registered: Jan 2005
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Quit crying its over. All of you move on.

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The best handlers know the rules and can bend the rules like a Philadelphia lawyer. We have all seen Winners that are top dogs. We have also seen winners that we would not feed. It is a game so have fun and run the type of dog that suit you. Be the type of handler that suits you.

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Registered: Jun 2014
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So....... are some of you under the impression that the best dog should win regardless of what the handler does?

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Donald Bergeron

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
So....... are some of you under the impression that the best dog should win regardless of what the handler does?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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The best handlers know the rules and can bend the rules like a Philadelphia lawyer. We have all seen Winners that are top dogs. We have also seen winners that we would not feed. It is a game so have fun and run the type of dog that suit you. Be the type of handler that suits you.

I think this sums up the situation. Back 50 years or so ago. I hunted and had a lot of fun doing it. I was happy with my hounds, my hunts and my hunting buddies. We had a blast. Then I wanted see how my hounds could compare to the hounds I was reading about in the magazines. These magazines, like they made a lot of stud dogs better. Seemed to make the dogs winning better and I wanted to see how to improve my hounds. Then it came into focus like Mr. Fulton explained. It is funny, we all want the loudest dog. A good dog wants the loudest handler. Over time, I had several dogs I had raised from a pup. Felt they fell a little short in having all the tools I wanted one to have. I would give them away only to see them in the winners circle a short time later. Confusion set in and and with some research, I found they were winning because the handler was a lot better than I was. So there are two sides to this game and they make a team. The dog and the handler. But the truth is. Coonhunting down in the swamps when no one is watching. Alone or with some friends. Is the greatest thrill in the world to me.

Second part of this is we all have talked about putting too much pressure on a hound and turing it sour. Especially a young hound. How about the pressure being put on handlers to perform. I always worked first and coon hunted second. Coon hunted a lot and went to work tired. But my JOB paid my bills and I knew that. Back in the early 80's because I hunted a lot. A few guys from up north that came down and hunted with me. Wanted me to work their young dogs. All the fun just went out of coon hunting for me. The dogs were not dogs I wanted to hunt and I soon saw why they wanted someone else to hunt them. But I accepted the responsibility and for a month I had to do my best with them. We have many a young person today that has put their value system to work and done a good job with their hounds. But that is a handful compared to the vast number of people that see the sport as a get rich quick type of deal. The ones in the hunts that have to win to stay employed are not fun to hunt with. The ones that have to sell a started dog that will never be a finished coonhound are not the ones to buy a dog from. The ones that have to breed andy female to raise puppies because they need some food in the house. Are not the ones to buy puppies from. Yes taking on the responsibility of breeding, training and competition hunting a hound is one that should come form desire and love of the sport. Doing it because it looks easy and then adding the pressure of surviving yourself and making money. Is a big part of the problem today. The sad truth is. It was part of the problem back 30 or 40 years ago also. The answer is to be true to yourself. Know who you are buying a dog form or partnering with to hunt. If the pressure to win, overrides the fun of hunting and doing what is right. Take a deep breath and a step back. Don't let it change you. When the fun goes out of hunting along with the desire to determine just which dog is the best out there on a particular night. Guess what. We get 5 pages of message board discussion trying to figure it all out.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-08-2021 at 12:56 PM

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OK guys. I have listened to this thing about the best dog long enough. Yes there are those slick handlers that bend rules and intimidate others. Yes there are dogs that aren't real coon dogs that win a lot, mostly due to the team handler mentioned above. With that said, it is about the best dog winning, and with strong judges they do! Pick judges that know the rules as well as the top handlers, that are above reproach and honest, and i will quarantee that the best dog on the cast that night will win. There is nothing more aggravating than a guy who knows he is wrong, but will trey and convince a judge to agree with him and buy the others vote. Of course its hard to beat the buddies that are on the cast, but a good judge can see through that most times. Good honest judges and MOH's are the only way to save a sport the is in decline. Can it be done? Sure, just not with a Joe Biden type judge we can't.

IT IS ABOUT THE DOGS! THE BEST ONE!

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Dave what are your thoughts on this?

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Seeking Soli Deo Gloria through the hounds.

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Originally posted by houndsound
Dave what are your thoughts on this?

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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