Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Ooltewah, TN
Posts: 361

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
It is funny now that we have elimination style hunts in ukc now they are easy. Before it changed all ya heard was the other kc's was awesome and the WAY. Always heard all ya can do is win your cast but now all the talk is a different tune.
Ok up next is winners go back out to hunt for the win or can we split the title instead. LOL

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Harleton Texas
Posts: 491

I get 20 weekends off per year . I am a Father and a Grandfather who's son and grandchildren live 4 hours away . My son is a Baseball coach . My point is to be a good father and Papa Mike I try and spend 10 of those weekends down in Louisiana . If someone has a pretty nice hound around here they will win half or 1 out of 3 of their cast with plus points . If there are even hunts around here year round it will take me several years to make 1 dog a Nite Champion . I wont be making any dog a Grand Nite unless I hire a handler and I think most would agree some or most unpleasantries on night hunts come from the hired gun . I have been married to a great woman for 36 years . From someone who works straight nights families take work , time and devotion . Coon dogs are a hobby . No one makes money from this sport we spend it . There is nothing cheap about a Night Champion title around here . I would bet that most of the guys that think titles are cheap would not win 1/2 of their cast with plus points in the Carthage , Linden , Queen City area of Texas . We have some really good dogs a cast win isn't easy . I would love to see weekday hunts in UKC you would see more guys showing up even if its 1 cast that's all it takes . If not the only other options are the $KC .

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Mike as you know even if I am just the guide I put you in good coon hunting and like you the distance between clubs makes it expensive to title a dog now. I am lucky that I have all this public hunting tho. I got to do the bench show at Wilson Oklahoma this weekend come on up I will be guiding a cast put you in coons.



Tar

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
Jim, it doesn't only mean he hunted better ground, but I think you will agree that a large percentage of the time a cast that trees 4 coons will have a higher score than a cast that trees one coon.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Last edited by JiM on 03-04-2019 at 01:05 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jim I got a large tract of private land I guide in first when I was hunting Fred I got beat by a redbone ( oh my goodness ) he had 750 + I had 725+ we was in the coons. Then got two 1rst on my female she came in heat I guided a cast in there all they got was possums and slicks said I dry holed them. Then went back and got anouther 1rst and that finished her the next weekend guided anouther cast and they got their 1rst place and finished their dog over the years I can't tell you how many dogs have been finished there no feeders either. But the dead cast that have came out of there :



Can't blame the coons !!


Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Tarbaby, so in the past if a handler didn't draw you as a guide, then he might as well go home because even if he won his cast, he wasn't going to get a win?

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

So before big hunts how many adds and posts did you see for guides? How many of those adds were guys looking to pay hundreds of dollars for a guide at these hunts? So please tell us how the dog that won those casts is better than the dog that drew out to public ground? You're theory of the better dog scored on more coon doesn't hold water. And y'all know it. And that is 1 very big reason I don't hunt in ukc. It's not about having the best dog, and I doubt it ever will be. And if you think the ukc world title is the most prestigious 1 then you haven't talked to very many people. I'd own a dog that's won the other registries world before the ukc title. You think there's a reason why the younger guys aren't hunting ukc much? Take a basketball tournament for example. Should the team that scored 120 points in a game win the whole tournament compared to the other teams that 90? Don't make much sense does it?

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

As we all know, in years past the Gr Nite title was the most coveted title out there. Things change! Here's what I believe happens. When we start a project and have no perfect plans, usually by the end of that project we have found an easier way to do it than in the beginning, usually by trial & era. After a while in the hunts, we can figure a way to win, even if our dogs aren't the best. Being a better handler, guiding to better spots, having a more competition style dog, learning how to judge in our favor, drops with more coon or less coon depending on your dogs score and yes, even learning how to cheat without getting caught, just to mention a few. You can add your own later. We have gone from 3 hour hunts with non hunting judges to 2 or 1 hour hunts with hunting judges. Even with non hunting judges, folks found a way to manipulate them. It's going to continue to change as long as we are alive, just to get on top. Just look at the sports events for our youth now. No one gets cut from a team and every one gets a trophy. With that type of mentality no wonder everyone is trying to find an easier way to win. A wise man once said, " Titles doesn't make a better dog but everyone loves a winner", (Dave Dean). That about sums it up. People with big egos will always find a way to win no matter what it takes. This usually has no bearing on how good the dog really is. As always, this is just my humble opinion and you can take it or leave it, . Have a great day.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Crap Richard that is 35 miles from me them boys live up there if they would leave the 22 at home they could win hunts in their woods !! I got coons like that right here on this public hunting by the house got to save a spot for the hunts. Plus what time of year it is I know where they are feeding and on what that makes a difference.



Tarbaby

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
So before big hunts how many adds and posts did you see for guides?

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Like I said I'll stick to true elimination style hunts and be happier. Jmho

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Excellent post, the truth is often a bitter pill to swallow. Whether it's a big hunt or the local club hunts, score based hunts are inheritantly flawed and are NO indicator of the best dog. Examples of honey hole spots not producing coons on a given night does nothing to defer the advantage they have over the other casts. Keep a record of ALL the casts hunting in a honey hole over a period of time and just see how many times the winning score came from the honey hole UKC is definitely on the right track to eliminate these unfair advantages and give every cast a fair chance to win. I can see the need for s cast winner elimination style hunt at all of our hunts, then we will know for sure who the real winner is. Thank you UKC for this new format, we are one step closer to seeing the best dog win on any given night. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Whether it's a big hunt or a local hunt really does not matter, the same inequities exist on score based hunts. Cast winner vs high score goes a step forward in resolving this issue. How many 1st places and Night Champions wins were obtained by those with access to these honey holes that the other casts did not have? Short of a cast winner elimination hunt, we now have a truer measure of equality in our hunts. Win your cast with plus points, you get a win, what's wrong with this? Should one cast winner ever be considered a better dog on score alone? I for one do not think so, and I for one am glad that UKC has corrected this problem. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 17

Originally posted by yadkintar
Always got to one up me lol.


Tar

Hey Just change the rules again.
____________

As long as it’s going to benefit Tim. He’s all about it!!

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Whether it's a big hunt or a local hunt really does not matter, the same inequities exist on score based hunts. Cast winner vs high score goes a step forward in resolving this issue. How many 1st places and Night Champions wins were obtained by those with access to these honey holes that the other casts did not have? Short of a cast winner elimination hunt, we now have a truer measure of equality in our hunts. Win your cast with plus points, you get a win, what's wrong with this? Should one cast winner ever be considered a better dog on score alone? I for one do not think so, and I for one am glad that UKC has corrected this problem. Dave

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Is it cheating to take a cast and turn loose at a corn field? Is it cheating to turn loose where you know there are mulberry trees?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

They better hang those feeders on a big old den tree because they can bite you on the rump too ! Mulberries and hackberries can too !



Might not be nobody home lol.



Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Absolutely hunting off buckets should be banned, it is actually illegal in A lot of states. Natural feed is spread throughout and does not offer continuous feed forces as does buckets 24/7 year around. Buckets tend to concentrate the local coon population, whereas the local feed when in season does not. Does a fishing tournament allow some to fish stocked ponds or fish in a barrel situation? Every one or every cast does not get put on buckets, is that fair? What does one really want in a competition hunt, an easy win or validation that you are hunting a real coondog? I suspect some are only interested in titles. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 03-07-2019 at 09:34 PM

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

I agree that buckets shouldn't be used BUT have noticed that at certain hunts, the winner of the cast that one of a couple people guided was the winner about 80% of the time. I can assure you that there was no feeders involved, just better locations. One area was a huge river bottom swamp. The other guy kind of spot hunted. He'd make a drop, score a tree and call timeout; then move. OK, I admit it. That was me. If I was able to hunt, (I had to MOH a bunch) the only guy in our club that was going to have a chance at his cast winning was my friend. Biggest difference was I seldom had enough dog power to win but he did.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

I recall once back in the days of 3 hour hunts that a cast went out in piney woods. The judge stopped at a little drain and they would cast, make a tree and call time out. In the 1st 45 minutes, they had scored 4 or 5 coons. He told them he had a watermelon patch they were going to finish out on. After the first 4 or 5 trees, the cast wanted to go there. They hunted the remaining 2:15 without making another tree!

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