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quote:

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Originally posted by berger
If you are striking every time off the tailgate and only score on 4 coon you have a dog problem not a rule problem.

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.
Now is the time to change this Rule and simplify judging making it easier for the judge and cast members.

If dog/dogs continuously bark in the first 15 seconds each time they are cast only 25 points will be available for strike to all dogs cast. If not then all strike points will be available and dogs will be awarded available strike points ect. 100, 75, 50, 25.
With this you could eliminate the babbling rule. and it would simplify judging and make the judges job so much easier. [/B][/QUOTE]

This rule is to help the 3rd and 4th strike dogs stay in the hunt it has nothing to do with the babbler. At least the way it is now you can ( and I do often) minus the babbler. Without screwing over the rest of the dogs. Anyone that wants to see a rule like this in place clearly does not have a strike dog and is sick of getting beat by dogs that are 1st and 1st type dogs. You want to make a rule change how bout any dog that covers another dog gets minus.

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quote:

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Originally posted by berger
My question is why did UKC go to a 1 minute rule on the strike? Was there a problem with dogs excite barking, loose barking, dog tracking barking or babbling when turned loose that they needed to give handlers a minute before striking their dogs. What was the purpose of the 1 minute Rule? Is the 1 minute rule working? Or is it just making it harder for the judge to judge the cast and that he needs to use his/her speculation/opinion for the rule.

Now is the time to change this Rule and simplify judging making it easier for the judge and cast members.

If dog/dogs continuously bark in the first 15 seconds each time they are cast only 25 points will be available for strike to all dogs cast. If not then all strike points will be available and dogs will be awarded available strike points ect. 100, 75, 50, 25.
With this you could eliminate the babbling rule. and it would simplify judging and make the judges job so much easier.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by berger
My question is why did UKC go to a 1 minute rule on the strike? Was there a problem with dogs excite barking, loose barking, dog tracking barking or babbling when turned loose that they needed to give handlers a minute before striking their dogs. What was the purpose of the 1 minute Rule? Is the 1 minute rule working? Or is it just making it harder for the judge to judge the cast and that he needs to use his/her speculation/opinion for the rule.

Now is the time to change this Rule and simplify judging making it easier for the judge and cast members.

If dog/dogs continuously bark in the first 15 seconds each time they are cast only 25 points will be available for strike to all dogs cast. If not then all strike points will be available and dogs will be awarded available strike points ect. 100, 75, 50, 25.
With this you could eliminate the babbling rule. and it would simplify judging and make the judges job so much easier.

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What about a dog that gets by himself then?

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Since some want to post what if's I figure I might as well to.

Let's say you go to a big hunt and draw guys that have driven 100's of miles. On every drop you got 1 dog striking right out of the tailgate. Dogs are dropping in there in less then a minute 5 to 800yds. You score on 6 coon in hunt cast winner has a nice score. First tree's were split up to 3 dogs but that dog that was striking from the tailgate never received a first tree. The other 3 dogs were splitting their strike points as well as they all seemed to be honest strike dogs that opened good on the ground. Now as the rule is written today it protected that dog that struck from the tailgate. If you look at my very first post and what I suggested for a new rule change would very likely not have affected this cast if that rule would have been in affect. Why for he was relying on that 100 strike to give him and advantage. If what I proposed there is a good chance that dog would have never traveled 100's of miles to hunt in that hunt because he would have known he had no advantage with his strike to get a cast win. Which would have then given the honest striking dogs a better chance at receiving more points and maybe having high score of the hunt.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I'm still of the opinion that I'd like to see the best dog win. I've often seen the best dog in the cast minused for an honest first strike for babbling by hunting judges. It forces the handler of a outstanding strike dog to hold off and take second strike instead of first because it is better to give away 25 point than get minused 100 in a one hour hunt. The trend to win by giving minus points to the competition because the judge doesn't have enough dog to win with plus points is a fact. The current rule protects an outstanding strike from being targeted by a dishonest judge.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
In the upper Midwest most guides drop the dogs where coon either den or are feeding. The coon population is very high and a top strike dog is usually winding the track or coon before the dogs are cast. The guide has to cast in an open area to prevent this and when this is done you take a chance on the dogs hunting onto areas there the guide doesn't have permission or going down a paved road. Most dogs go over 300 yards in a minute and a top strike will honestly strike within 300 yards whether recast or in the same location or in new ground.

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I myself don't mind a dog barking off the leash. but the simple way if you want it changed is to follow AKC rule were is if you strike under the minute you have to follower with a tree call. that would cause a lot of the striking under minute stop because they don't take 125 minus lick right off the chain. I hunt a lot of other kc an the dogs that strijes off the leash an trees coons it hard to beat them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I'm still of the opinion that I'd like to see the best dog win. I've often seen the best dog in the cast minused for an honest first strike for babbling by hunting judges. It forces the handler of a outstanding strike dog to hold off and take second strike instead of first because it is better to give away 25 point than get minused 100 in a one hour hunt. The trend to win by giving minus points to the competition because the judge doesn't have enough dog to win with plus points is a fact. The current rule protects an outstanding strike from being targeted by a dishonest judge.

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Time for change

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I agree with your logic and would go along with your proposed change. The current rules favor a ground pounder type of track dog and not an outstanding track dog that drifts and opens accordingly. These type KC rules promote sorry track dogs.

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None of these proposals nor any rule in any KC address nor can they ever address the dog that continuously barks while hunting if it is treeing coons short of limiting barks and counting barks for the duration of the hunt lol. The dogs that just babble upon being turned loose are easily addressed with current rules here or across the pond. The ones most complain about open early and often for however long they are in the woods. Ukc choose probably decades ago to punish dogs that are still mouth, now some wish to punish full open. Sure you could make the strike a non-factor by either no strike points just tree (opens a can of worms for coon caught ect and several other rules) or all in for same points upon opening (not a fan of this either).
The best solution has already been done for you - you can get up to 125 on a tree, you can only get a max of 100 for the strike. Whoever put that into place got it right!
Now then if the problem lies in that the 100 strike dog that carries it is also treeing more coon faster and getting 125 on tree and beating you with consistancy, no rule change is going to help that.

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I will predict that rules will be changed this year. The rules still wont be right after the change. Yep those wanting the rule changed has got beat because of this or that. It's much simpler to change the rules to match the hounds than changing the hounds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
None of these proposals nor any rule in any KC address nor can they ever address the dog that continuously barks while hunting if it is treeing coons short of limiting barks and counting barks for the duration of the hunt lol. The dogs that just babble upon being turned loose are easily addressed with current rules here or across the pond. The ones most complain about open early and often for however long they are in the woods. Ukc choose probably decades ago to punish dogs that are still mouth, now some wish to punish full open. Sure you could make the strike a non-factor by either no strike points just tree (opens a can of worms for coon caught ect and several other rules) or all in for same points upon opening (not a fan of this either).
The best solution has already been done for you - you can get up to 125 on a tree, you can only get a max of 100 for the strike. Whoever put that into place got it right!
Now then if the problem lies in that the 100 strike dog that carries it is also treeing more coon faster and getting 125 on tree and beating you with consistancy, no rule change is going to help that.

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Just scratch all the silent dogs and babblers and all us who dont have or tolerate either can enjoy COONHUNTING

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quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Just scratch all the silent dogs and babblers and all us who dont have or tolerate either can enjoy COONHUNTING

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
None of these proposals nor any rule in any KC address nor can they ever address the dog that continuously barks while hunting if it is treeing coons short of limiting barks and counting barks for the duration of the hunt lol. The dogs that just babble upon being turned loose are easily addressed with current rules here or across the pond. The ones most complain about open early and often for however long they are in the woods. Ukc choose probably decades ago to punish dogs that are still mouth, now some wish to punish full open. Sure you could make the strike a non-factor by either no strike points just tree (opens a can of worms for coon caught ect and several other rules) or all in for same points upon opening (not a fan of this either).
The best solution has already been done for you - you can get up to 125 on a tree, you can only get a max of 100 for the strike. Whoever put that into place got it right!
Now then if the problem lies in that the 100 strike dog that carries it is also treeing more coon faster and getting 125 on tree and beating you with consistancy, no rule change is going to help that.

---

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RIP, you can do the same thing now.

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Jen we all know they ain't going to be just one doing it and there is safety in numbers.


Watched a truck hunt play by play the other night struck under the 30 every drop its just an excepted practice now.


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Since I end up judging a lot I don't want any more rule changes . Its hard enough to keep track now let alone have to add additional things to the card, We got along fine for years lets leave well enough alone .Just my two cents worth. Too many people now that cant separate the rules by Kennel clubs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
RIP, you can do the same thing now.

---

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For the last 30 years scratching or minusing a dog for babbling has been a problem. The fact is that it can happen on any cast and not all judges have the guts to enforce the rule or even be able to honestly do that even if they have a gut feeling that a dog is babbling but want to be 100% sure before they do. So in my opinion the judging should just be left out of it and a dog can only receive 50 points max if opening at the end of the first minute then all other dogs go in at 25 it one dog is struck in for 50. That way if I am hunting an honest mouthed dog I will only be down 25 on strike at the most against a babber or we aren’t determining a cast winner on who can strike their dog the fastest on a turnout, or who can argue the best about why their dog isn’t babbling, or which dog opened their mouth the fastest on a track the dogs didn’t even have to really hunt for. If the dogs are gone for a minute they have already covered some ground hunting to find a track and the purpose of the 100 strike is to reward a dog for going hunting and finding a track before the other dogs. I doubt babbling was that much of an issue back in the days the point systems were established as a means to see who had the best coon dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ov_blues
For the last 30 years scratching or minusing a dog for babbling has been a problem. The fact is that it can happen on any cast and not all judges have the guts to enforce the rule or even be able to honestly do that even if they have a gut feeling that a dog is babbling but want to be 100% sure before they do. So in my opinion the judging should just be left out of it and a dog can only receive 50 points max if opening at the end of the first minute then all other dogs go in at 25 it one dog is struck in for 50. That way if I am hunting an honest mouthed dog I will only be down 25 on strike at the most against a babber or we aren’t determining a cast winner on who can strike their dog the fastest on a turnout, or who can argue the best about why their dog isn’t babbling, or which dog opened their mouth the fastest on a track the dogs didn’t even have to really hunt for. If the dogs are gone for a minute they have already covered some ground hunting to find a track and the purpose of the 100 strike is to reward a dog for going hunting and finding a track before the other dogs. I doubt babbling was that much of an issue back in the days the point systems were established as a means to see who had the best coon dog.

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Last edited by berger on 03-04-2019 at 04:09 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by berger
Ov blues if you go look at the very first post and the proposal in it and think about it. This is by far the best idea for areas with thick coon and thin coon. Takes all the trying to figure out or guessing out of the game. It makes judging a cast simpler for every judge and cast member.

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Last edited by ov_blues on 03-04-2019 at 04:29 PM

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