Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

A lot of lofty high ideals. Some of you need to start your own registry and watch it take off like a rocket.

Heaven forbid it wouldn't have anything to do with tweaking the existing rules to cater towards your dogs weakness. Quit labeling the semi silent tight mouth track dogs as honest strike dogs and just admit they have a hole. If your dog is getting beat by that me too dog who rode its coat tails and "stole" it's tree, admit your dog has a hole and is not a quick enough locater. All of these 95% accurate dogs everyone seems to have these days should be dominating these hunts if they were just entered anyway

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
A lot of lofty high ideals. Some of you need to start your own registry and watch it take off like a rocket.

Heaven forbid it wouldn't have anything to do with tweaking the existing rules to cater towards your dogs weakness. Quit labeling the semi silent tight mouth track dogs as honest strike dogs and just admit they have a hole. If your dog is getting beat by that me too dog who rode its coat tails and "stole" it's tree, admit your dog has a hole and is not a quick enough locater. All of these 95% accurate dogs everyone seems to have these days should be dominating these hunts if they were just entered anyway

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
A lot of lofty high ideals. Some of you need to start your own registry and watch it take off like a rocket.

Heaven forbid it wouldn't have anything to do with tweaking the existing rules to cater towards your dogs weakness. Quit labeling the semi silent tight mouth track dogs as honest strike dogs and just admit they have a hole. If your dog is getting beat by that me too dog who rode its coat tails and "stole" it's tree, admit your dog has a hole and is not a quick enough locater. All of these 95% accurate dogs everyone seems to have these days should be dominating these hunts if they were just entered anyway

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
A lot of lofty high ideals. Some of you need to start your own registry and watch it take off like a rocket.

Heaven forbid it wouldn't have anything to do with tweaking the existing rules to cater towards your dogs weakness. Quit labeling the semi silent tight mouth track dogs as honest strike dogs and just admit they have a hole. If your dog is getting beat by that me too dog who rode its coat tails and "stole" it's tree, admit your dog has a hole and is not a quick enough locater. All of these 95% accurate dogs everyone seems to have these days should be dominating these hunts if they were just entered anyway

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

quote:

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Originally posted by Ed zachary
Its not the tweaking of the rules that is wrong , its breeding the hounds to fit the rules.
Two things you need to consistently win, 1) tree dog that will not leave, 2) a first strike dog.
Wonder where all these babbling slick tree'rs come from?

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Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Just my opinion been doing this a long time seen every style of dog they make in thick coons you can have a lower end stike dog and a first tree dog and you can win consistently buuuuuuut ! In thin coons like where I live you take high end strike dog ( babbler ) that will get treed quick ( cover ) it cuts your chances way down if you stump your toe one time your not apt to have enough time to recover last strike and first tree 150 + first strike second tree 175 +

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Just my opinion been doing this a long time seen every style of dog they make in thick coons you can have a lower end stike dog and a first tree dog and you can win consistently buuuuuuut ! In thin coons like where I live you take high end strike dog ( babbler ) that will get treed quick ( cover ) it cuts your chances way down if you stump your toe one time your not apt to have enough time to recover last strike and first tree 150 + first strike second tree 175 +

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Last edited by Jason Baldwin on 03-16-2015 at 09:39 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

And to just my opinion I haven't had one I a while I love on a bad night hunting a layup dog but what I have noticed that alot of those babblers when cut they run each other a long ways a little layup dog will hurt them the but most them won't admit they're dog is babbling but they will be the first to accuse your dog of being silent count down rule would throw a bunch of breeders into a tizzy I garonteeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Just my opinion been doing this a long time seen every style of dog they make in thick coons you can have a lower end stike dog and a first tree dog and you can win consistently buuuuuuut ! In thin coons like where I live you take high end strike dog ( babbler ) that will get treed quick ( cover ) it cuts your chances way down if you stump your toe one time your not apt to have enough time to recover last strike and first tree 150 + first strike second tree 175 +

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Home of:
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Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

Really, some dogs have holes. They all have holes, they all have their nights. But after payin up my 20$ and headin to the woods, the last thing I want to do is spot a dog75 points. I also feel quilty striking my dog for 100 because I know how tight on track he is and his second bark is usually 30 seconds later.
On very few casts are strike points anything more than a race to get on the card.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You must be hunting with different class of dogs than I draw its nothin down here where I hunt 4 dog cast 3 of them babble if they need the strike they will strike under the minute look at all the play by plays at the times when they are getting struck its hard to minuse a dog that don't never shut up best thing you can do is say woooooo weeeeeeee boys that's a hot one maybe we should split the strike!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Strike points is nothing but a race to dishonesty on many casts. And then the driving force behind it is money. It all adds up. Think about it.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Do away with strike points altogether and do away with ANY tree points except FIRST tree. How many wouldn't even show up to the hunts anymore ever again ? How many dogs with the right handler in a cast setting winning cast after cast , could not even accurately tree a coon by themselves 90% of the time they are turned loose ? Whats that tell you ?

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: berkeley springs w va
Posts: 448

if ya did away with everything but first tree. how many arguements will you have when 2 dogs hit tree at same time an other guy trees before you, say your dog is still mouth an his is a babbler.an he trees before you. then whats the complaint gona b

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

The post has nothing to do with taking away strike points quit derailin this thread its about a tree countdown! If you take away strike points there is nothing to minus on that end! A tree countdown would seperate the coondogs from the me too types and i think would help put the spotlight on the real coon treers.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
A lot of lofty high ideals. Some of you need to start your own registry and watch it take off like a rocket.

Heaven forbid it wouldn't have anything to do with tweaking the existing rules to cater towards your dogs weakness. Quit labeling the semi silent tight mouth track dogs as honest strike dogs and just admit they have a hole. If your dog is getting beat by that me too dog who rode its coat tails and "stole" it's tree, admit your dog has a hole and is not a quick enough locater. All of these 95% accurate dogs everyone seems to have these days should be dominating these hunts if they were just entered anyway

---

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

Vic I will have to disagree with you for once.Just cause we hunt the same area.Majority of the reg cast Ive been in 2 or 3 of the dogs struck on trash.Heck some of them run trash the whole 2 hours.These guys round here dont break there dogs from running dogs or trash.They proudly take that automatic strike cause they know there gonna need it.If where judging coondogs why should a dog get 100 points for barking at dogs or deer?Reason it get challenged much is cause it's usually the judges dog. I still won majority of these casts but was aggervated to see those trashy dogs get free points.The system is screwed up and I'm not sure the solution cause slick handlers are geting commen.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: berkeley springs w va
Posts: 448

i wasnt trying to derail this post. i was asking a question to posts farther up about getting rid of everything but first tree..i agree with a tree count down.. but if you start hunting a dog that will open on track you wont b taking last strike cuz your dog is silent.. everybody is intitled to hunt what they like. but lets not change rules to fit the dogs.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
I will put my 2 cents in here.

At one time I was involved in the campaign to get a countdown rule in UKC. I could not understand why anyone would be against it, but as the years went by I saw a change in the dogs that were being hunted in the hunts and I began to realize what was happening.

Back in the day,( 70s 80s in my case)If you hunted with a sure nuff coondog that was a big winner, it was gonna be a top notch track dog that could take a track away from the pack and tree the coon. If you wanted to have a winner, you needed to breed a better track dog.

Somewhere along the way folks found it a lot easier to breed and train dogs that wouldn't compete with other dogs for the same coon. They could win with a dog that was always alone. It didn't even need to be able to run a track.If it would fly around and bush easy coon and if you could get it to run its mouth while doing it, it was a winner and winners get bred to.

Then they figured out how to change a few rules like the babbling rule. Id sure like to pee in that guys coffee.
And with 125 first tree and the countdown in other orgs.,no one wants to have a dog that will compete with another dog for the same coon for fear they will draw a real track dog.

Sure you will get beat by a dog that rattles its mouth and just runs around covering dogs, but not very often. If you do youd better reevaluate what your leading.I don't see anything but more of a downhill trend in our dogs tracking abilitys with a countdown.

When was the last time you saw a real top notch track dog?
Don't be blind to the fact the nitehunt rules directly effect the type of dogs you will see in the future.

thanks for reading.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: Taylor Mi
Posts: 171

Count down and 50 strike points across the board

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

It's really kinda simple if you ask me. There is 3 different registries out there 2 of which offer count down tree points. Have a nice day.


IMHO a tight mouthed dog that trees real live coons will win more often than not.


"Deep and lonely" sounds great in a stud dog add but isn't worth a hill of beans in an actual hunt. Although I do like drawing this type of hound with my 3-4 strike dog that trees behind them all night with real live coons.

I hope UKC never goes to a count down tree!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by Fisher13
Tree dogs were also bred because there easier to train, not as trashy,more coon, and last time I checked coon climb trees.

Track dogs tend to run more trash as pups, take longer to train.

Just saying...

A tree has no reason to be open for 5 min, that just ludacris

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
Maybe I should pay more attention to all your training advice and perhaps I could have one of those dogs that don't take 5 minutes to get to a tree.

Whats Ludacris is a newbie that probably hasn't entered half a dozen hunts in his life, trying to change the rules.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
I think y'all may be misunderstanding each other.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

quote:

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Originally posted by rthompson
i wont quit labelin my dog heck i dont care if the others do babble mine trees first with a coon an is a low end strike dog period i know what he is but a dog that trees second didnt tree the coon period i never said my dog got his tree stolen!!! And i never said i should be dominating the hunts in fact i know i have to tree an extra coon most nights. i started this thread with a simple question and you get on hear actin like heman with out a respectful answer talkin bout others dogs when you never hunted with them you must be real simple in your head.

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LOL. You got the simple on the head part right, anyone that hunts a blue dog has to be at least one brick shy!

I must have missed the part where I singled YOUR dog and YOU out. If the shoe from the example excuses I shared which have been commonly used on the 1,000 other posts on this subject fit, it is your choice whether to wear that shoe or not.

I know I'm simple in the head, but it seems to me that a registry that rewards 1st tree with 125 points instead of 100 points (like the other registries with a tree countdown) already favors the low end strike dog. Of course that's probably not the reason why the folks who want a tree countdown won't hunt those other registries

For the record, I could care less if there is a tree countdown or not. I'll take my medicine when our low end strike dog gets entered in a UKC hunt, and if I want to do better, I'll seek out a better strike dog instead of trying to change the rules to fit our dog's weakness.

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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