Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

We all need to drop the stress and enjoy the events . The time will soon be upon me that a visit to a show like Oaks to see old friends may be the high light of my year and shortly thereafter the new handlers will wonder who I am or was . That's life and the way it's always been an will be . Enjoy it while you can cause most of the world could care less .

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale Young
We all need to drop the stress and enjoy the events . The time will soon be upon me that a visit to a show like Oaks to see old friends may be the high light of my year and shortly thereafter the new handlers will wonder who I am or was . That's life and the way it's always been an will be . Enjoy it while you can cause most of the world could care less .

---

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

Cynthia ~ Don't sell yourself short. You are a blessing to this sport and to hound owners in general. There are very few people like you. I'm glad you take such a roll in the bench shows.

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Flat Rock, NC
Posts: 1842

Love to show and Love to Judge but this kind of stuff is why I have stepped back lately and not did a whole lot... after B&T Days I needed a break !!!!!!!

I judge on the ground and on the bench and I have taken dogs down to reevaluate when needed... always have always will... Gate is a part of it and needs to be looked at always!!!


Right now watching my son play baseball is a lot more fun lol!!!!!

__________________
Lisa Beddingfield
Flat Rock Kennels Home of
Melrose Mountain Black & Tans
shanelisa@bellsouth.net


GrCh Pr Melrose Mtn Lead Me Home "Mercy"
2020 Autumn Oaks National Grand Black and Tan
2019 Autumn Oaks National Grand Black and Tan
2017 Black and Tan Days Queen of Show
2017 World Champion Black & Tan Female
2018 Ch of Ch Female Grand American
2019 Ch of Ch Female Winter Classic
2019 Georgia State Show Champion
2020 SC State Queen of Show

Ch Melrose Mtn Diamond in the Rough "Coal"
2019 NC State Best Male of Show
2019 Autumn Oaks Best Male of Show
2019 World Champion B&T Male
2020 SC State Show Champion
2020 Autumn Oaks Champion B&T Male
2020 World Ch Black and Tan Male
2020 World Show Overall Opposite Sex
2020 Purina Nationals Black and Tan Winner

UKC and AKC GrCH Melrose Mtn Hint of Jasmine
2015 Southern English Days BFOS
2017 Southern English Days Ch Female
2018 Southern English Days GrCh Female
2015 Autumn Oaks BFOS
2016 English Day Champion Female and Overall Queen of Show
2018 Autumn Oaks Overall Opposite Sex National Grand
2020 World Champion English Female


UKC GrCh AKC GRCH Melrose Mtn This is My Town (T-Roy) Plott
2015 UKC NC State Opposite Sex Winner
2013 UKC Saluda Coondog Days Gr Male and King of Show
2013 UKC NPHA Plott Days Overall King of Show
2015 National Grand Plott
2018 National Grand Opposite Sex Plott


In Loving Memory
GrCh Melrose Mtn Lil Bit of Beau - "Tucker" 8-28-2006 to 1-21-2011
Ch Melrose Mtn Sugar and Spice "Sugar" 11-17-2011 to 4-6-2014

GrCh Melrose Mtn Amazing Gracie
8-28-2006 to 8-25-2019

GrCh Melrose Mtn Lily
8-26-2004 to 9-4-2019


Yesterday is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
That's why we call it
"The Present"

Last edited by LMBEDDINGFIELD on 05-28-2013 at 08:22 PM

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 1012

I'm not going to say all that's in my head about this particular topic. But I will say, I also wish more judges would be utilized instead of the same people every couple months. For example...I've been to at least one day of my state's Purina event almost every year for the past 5 years. Except for ONE day on ONE year I went, the same two judges have judged every single year. Haven't even switched days. If that continues to be the case, I won't be going and taking a handful of dogs to pay entry fees on like I have in past years anymore. Nothing personal against the judges themselves, I just don't think it's right. And I know I'm not the only one having that thought...I'm just the only one that will openly say it right now!

I will also add, I do think some sort of education is needed. Sure, opinion will sometimes play a part when it comes to interpreting breed standard. But if the dog's gait is truly going to become a more important part of the judging process, then judges need to get on the same page about what correct movement is. The mechanics of proper gait and general locomotion isn't much of an "opinion" if you ask me. You can ask for more work on the ground all you want, but if you can't recognize correct movement it's a moot point.

__________________
------------------------------
Poison Whiskey Coonhounds
Jessica O'Connor
CH'PR'Moss Blue Carolina Rain-Queen of Show, BBOA Zone 6 Championship
NITECH CH 'PR' Carolina Flo
CH 'PR' Poison Whiskey Waylon
CH 'PR' Cruse's I'm Your Huckleberry
CH'PR' PoisonWhiskey WildHoney
'PR' Poison Whiskey CowgirlsDontCry
CH'PR' Bowers & O'Connor's Foxy Roxy
PoisonWhiskey SonOfTheSouth

Poison Whiskey Hello Darlin'-2013 AL State BMOS, AL State Hall of Fame King of Show

PoisonWhiskey LilMsHonkyTonk

Coming Soon...
PoisonWhiskeyMaybeItWasMemphis
PoisonWhiskey Heart Like Mine
-------------------------
In loving memory...
CCH GRCH 'PR' Swampland Blue Gypsy-RIP sweet girl
'PR' Miller Time

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: MO
Posts: 27

This sounds a lot like a church. You have some wanting to make it the biggest and best that it can be while others sit on the back pew and grumble because the choir didnt sing the same three hymns theyve been singing every Sunday for 30 years..

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Jonny Dean LL.B
Rayville, MO

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

I addressed that before Jessica. I agree with you 100%. If there isn't some changes there will be very little participation

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

One last opinion to muddy the waters some more . The breed standards are there so we supposedly have a reference to refer to when looking at any particular breed . The dog don't have to be a 100% perfect example to be within the breed standard they just have to meet those standards . Judging is trying to pick the dog that BEST meets the standard . Two can be so close that a judge can pick a Walker with darker tan coloring versus light tan coloring because it just looks better to that particular judge . Every other judge might see it just the opposite . Sometimes that's why people ask who's judging before driving across country at $4/gal.
Standards weren't written to force anyone to have a perfect dog in a bench show , conformation ring or even at the Westminster. The Judge is GOD ALMIGHTY for the period of time you & your dog are in their control .

Again :
Talk UKC into posting a VERY GOOD & VERY CORRECT video on here for everyone's reference , just one so we we all study the same thing.
May not help, kinda like studying religion . I think religion has caused death & dying thru war and terrorists attacks thru out history but most don't see it that way . To each their own .

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Rockwell, NC
Posts: 268

You brought up a good topic with color. In the AKC all breed arena we deal with "type". I also show Scottish Deerhounds and there are two or three types. all Deerhounds, all fit the breed standard, but look vastly different. Of course the breeders of the different types will argue that their type is best. What has evolved is we have deerhounds with not a ton of coat, a medium to long coat and yaks. Wooly beasts. If there is a judge that historically has put up the "yaks" all the typey not a lot of coat deerhounds won't show up to show to that judge.

I have had some say to me that you need to show to anyone. That is not necessarily true and it doesn't make your dog less or more for showing to that judge. It simply means you did your homework and recognized a type that particular judge likes. Unfortunately we don't have past entries to look at before entering a show online but you can look through old magazines for the bigger shows.

I haven't been in coonhounds long but I have made my living at dogs for decades. I think we are already starting to see bigger, leggier dogs. I breed a lot of hunting dogs and they are largely smaller, broader chested and have larger heads than their show only counterparts. I would think with coonhounds now being welcome in the AKC all breed world we will see two distinct types develop. The show dog and the working dog. I just hope like all the other breeds out there this breed doesn't get ruined by massive amounts of inbreeding/line breeding to create a "type". Twinning genes twins both the good and desirable genes but also the problems you would like to get rid of and brings it right back front and center. This is how health problems develop. The Boxer people are finally not allowing two DM carriers to breed as they are trying to undo all the damage. The gene pool in coonhounds is huge in comparison to other breeds. I personally hope it stays that way!

__________________
"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 1012

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cleo
I addressed that before Jessica. I agree with you 100%. If there isn't some changes there will be very little participation

---

__________________
------------------------------
Poison Whiskey Coonhounds
Jessica O'Connor
CH'PR'Moss Blue Carolina Rain-Queen of Show, BBOA Zone 6 Championship
NITECH CH 'PR' Carolina Flo
CH 'PR' Poison Whiskey Waylon
CH 'PR' Cruse's I'm Your Huckleberry
CH'PR' PoisonWhiskey WildHoney
'PR' Poison Whiskey CowgirlsDontCry
CH'PR' Bowers & O'Connor's Foxy Roxy
PoisonWhiskey SonOfTheSouth

Poison Whiskey Hello Darlin'-2013 AL State BMOS, AL State Hall of Fame King of Show

PoisonWhiskey LilMsHonkyTonk

Coming Soon...
PoisonWhiskeyMaybeItWasMemphis
PoisonWhiskey Heart Like Mine
-------------------------
In loving memory...
CCH GRCH 'PR' Swampland Blue Gypsy-RIP sweet girl
'PR' Miller Time

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

I make it a point not to blow up at anybody that isn't standing in my face but I express opinions & sometimes ideas to others . Surprising sometimes what shows up a year or two down the road if something appeals to enough people to get mentioned and talked about . Never should blow a fuse or threaten anybody . I seldom if ever ask a judge why I didn't win , they obviously liked another dog better so what's the point besides hearing something I proably don't want to hear . When the shows over your opinion is worth more than anyone else's if you want to feed the dog .

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 511

I have to say as a bench show judge i would love to see more info put out there by ukc, i will jump in and say the lack of training on the lower level shows does have quite the effect on judging it is very hard to judge a dog gait when it is being drug along by the handler. In those descions one must do the best they can with the hand they are dealt, kinda like my grandpa use to say if you win the rat race your still a d*** rat.

Coming from a livestock background i feel that gait or soundness is very important in the make up of an animal be a hog or a dog. i have seen both that looked great standing still but came apart when you watched them travel, both i feel would cause the hog or dog to have problem doing there job be it moving on a slat floor and eating till they are ready to butcher or being asked to chase and tree something on a daily basis.

__________________
______________________________

Adam Davis, owner handler Backwoods Blues
Home of some trashy culls,
it ain't the years it the miles that make me look this way

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:

---

Originally posted by okietreedog
I have to say as a bench show judge i would love to see more info put out there by ukc, i will jump in and say the lack of training on the lower level shows does have quite the effect on judging it is very hard to judge a dog gait when it is being drug along by the handler. In those descions one must do the best they can with the hand they are dealt, kinda like my grandpa use to say if you win the rat race your still a d*** rat.

Coming from a livestock background i feel that gait or soundness is very important in the make up of an animal be a hog or a dog. i have seen both that looked great standing still but came apart when you watched them travel, both i feel would cause the hog or dog to have problem doing there job be it moving on a slat floor and eating till they are ready to butcher or being asked to chase and tree something on a daily basis.

---

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

The more instering it gets.

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SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 288

quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
The more instering it gets.

---

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 288

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale Young
I make it a point not to blow up at anybody that isn't standing in my face but I express opinions & sometimes ideas to others . Surprising sometimes what shows up a year or two down the road if something appeals to enough people to get mentioned and talked about . Never should blow a fuse or threaten anybody . I seldom if ever ask a judge why I didn't win , they obviously liked another dog better so what's the point besides hearing something I proably don't want to hear . When the shows over your opinion is worth more than anyone else's if you want to feed the dog .

---

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

90 day wonders, I think I have heard that phrese used before. And most of um aint never been in the dark unless they forgot to turn the light on inside the house must less turn a dog loose to go hunting and NOW they know what it takes to have a good hunting dog by watching it GAIT around a bench GO FIGURE. That aught to light up this post. BUT guess what don't give a whistlers D$%%^&*&**M . H L

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SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: In my heart Eureka Springs
Posts: 1161

quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
90 day wonders, I think I have heard that phrese used before. And most of um aint never been in the dark unless they forgot to turn the light on inside the house must less turn a dog loose to go hunting and NOW they know what it takes to have a good hunting dog by watching it GAIT around a bench GO FIGURE. That aught to light up this post. BUT guess what don't give a whistlers D$%%^&*&**M . H L

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__________________
The History Should Be Known
Don

http://www.finleyriverchief.com

Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

A Lot Of Old Pictures And Ads

http://finleyriverchief.forumotion.net

Register On The Above Forum To See A Lot More Old Pictures And Ads.
There are more that you can't access unless registered.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

I have to say I'm getting way to old to ride that pony .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

quote:

---

Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
90 day wonders, I think I have heard that phrese used before. And most of um aint never been in the dark unless they forgot to turn the light on inside the house must less turn a dog loose to go hunting and NOW they know what it takes to have a good hunting dog by watching it GAIT around a bench GO FIGURE. That aught to light up this post. BUT guess what don't give a whistlers D$%%^&*&**M . H L

---

H.L.
That's what they were told at the Westminster so it must be right .

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 511

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
who says you have to pick 1?

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______________________________

Adam Davis, owner handler Backwoods Blues
Home of some trashy culls,
it ain't the years it the miles that make me look this way

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 288

[QUOTE]Originally posted by okietreedog
if they meet breed standards you better pick one or i figure ukc would be asking for you to turn in your bench show judge License at the request of the folks paying you to judge their show [/QUOT] Year's ago when I was a UKC judge and moh . Twice I didn't place a dogs. Afterward's I talked to Fred Miller and he said that i did the right thing. If you made the right call he would back you 100%.

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Posts: 1222

i think the classes that they held at oaks were good when they started but then we got to comparing hounds to other breeds and people lost interest i would like to see a dvd made for judges to be able to get to educate them in the future there are some good judges out there that never get a chance to judge the bigger shows that should and there is judges judges that are used at small shows that should not be able to judge a small show

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DAVID GARDIN

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 511

quote:

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Originally posted by R.lee prater
[QUOTE]Originally posted by okietreedog
if they meet breed standards you better pick one or i figure ukc would be asking for you to turn in your bench show judge License at the request of the folks paying you to judge their show [/QUOT] Year's ago when I was a UKC judge and moh . Twice I didn't place a dogs. Afterward's I talked to Fred Miller and he said that i did the right thing. If you made the right call he would back you 100%.

---

__________________
______________________________

Adam Davis, owner handler Backwoods Blues
Home of some trashy culls,
it ain't the years it the miles that make me look this way

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

The lack of a response from anyone at UKC is deafening.

Is anyone up there listening??


There is a column monthly to interpret the nite hunt rules.

There is a published handbook (2nd Edition) to help interpret and set a guideline for nite hunt rules .Both MOH and competitors benefit.

All that is currently available for the show portion is a pocket size handbook outlining the breed standards.

Why is there a lack of the same similar guidelines and imformation available to aid a Show Judge ,bench show competitors,as well as newcomers to showing dogs what is correct?

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 06-02-2013 at 12:18 PM

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