Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

I'm sorry but did you actually read my post??? Where did I say anything about me making money? In fact, Joe and I have spent literally thousands of dollars out of our own pockets, not to mention countless hours away from our families and our own dogs, in attempt to support and promote this sport. So trust me, I have no illusions of making any money at it!

What I said was that our business partners and sponsors could make money, or get a return on their investment, as long as the sport is promoted. This too, is a proven model, as there are numerous not-for-profits that are supported by numerous for-profit businesses.

And dog racing is the last thing I would want to compare us to, or model us after. Do you have any idea how many PETA folks are already jumping all over those spectacles?!?

And certainly awareness, does offer the opportunity for opposition, but so does being secretive. I seriously doubt Michael Vick was advertising the adventures he had going on! But I fear that your point has some deeper meaning. I'm not afraid of awareness or opposition, as I have no plans on making people aware of things they would oppose, other than any form of hunting, by some. In other words, if we're only casting the sport in a good light, we shouldn't be afraid of opposition. At least no more than you already get.

Said another way, for those that fear awareness, what is it they're afraid of??? Last time I checked, UKC didnt have a secret knock to get into a hunt. So it's already public, we're just talking about accentuating the positive.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: milan,mi
Posts: 1379

First off I wish you,Joe,Shane and anyone else involved in your adventure the best of luck.

This sport or hobby is difficult for non coon hunting people to comprehend. I take out at least 6 to 12 people each year that have never seen or heard a hound run before. Usually it is a dad who has a kid or two that wants them to have a different kind of hunting experience. Their opinions range from "this is cool" to "you got to be crazy to do this". LOL I will get some repeat requests to go but not very many. Sports, and other social matters take up too much of their time.

In my opinion our coon hunting sport is just real hard to convey on TV to spark enough interest to make it a profitable endeavor vs something like BASS. You have a tough row to hoe. JMHO

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

OK, I think w have at times gotten a bit off topic, with my original question. So let me try paraphrase what I'm hearing some of you say, and my personal beliefs on the topic...

1. There's certainly some differences today, between a B.A.S.S. type format and hound competition events, but I don't think there's a good reason why they couldn't be very similar, and there are many ways that they already are.

2. As Joe pointed out, both participate on a local, regional and national level, and as you move up, the exposure, notoriety, and benefits increase.

3. As Bruce pointed out, there are large prizes and prize money already handed out at UKC and PKC events. The magnitude and person or organization paying for them may differ, but prizes is not new to our sport.

4. As Mike pointed out, the magnitude difference in prizes is due to the coverage alloted those sponsors, the purse strings will open up more if it's not just Public Relations being acheived, but also national television marketting. And whether your trying to provide benefits/prizes to event participants or fund a public service announcement to fight for rights, you need corporate partners to bank-roll it.

5. Hunters compete to win, but winning means a lot less if nobody knows about, sure there's some personal satisfaction, but we all have a little ego to stroke. If that wasn't the case, folks would just stay home, personally knowing they have the best dog! So, competition participation will incease if the notoriety and pay-back increases. And that can be acheived by televising the winners winning, and the advertizers contributing.

6. Televising an event also reduces the cloud of mystery as to what really happened on that final cast... what were the conditions, how were people and dogs behaving, etc. etc. A camera doesn't stretch the truth, and so maybe fewer of us, would.

7. We're not talking about a nuisance commentator amongst the competitors, we're talking about covering it, not commenting on it. Many who have seen our past shows, so me or other trying to keep the action alive, but in this format the hunters and judges are the action, we would be filming them, as basically the hosts or co-hosts of the show.

8. So who would benefit??? The registry and producer benefits by increased sponsorship and aid in covering their costs. The competitors get more notoriety and bigger prize money. And more people and companies would have a stake in the game. As Mike said, if our sport is giving a company a return on their investment, then that company will help ensure the future of our sport!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I guess I can’t understand why anyone would be against something that could promote our sport and show it in a positive light.
As a comp hunter I would drive a little extra and spend a little more knowing if I make it in then me and my hound are on national TV. Competition coon hunting is all about recognition. Who would want to drive some were and pay money if no one ever knew that you won?
The more advertised the sport has the more people see chances to make money at it. That includes participants and vendors. The more vendors we have with deep pockets the more likely they are to protect their investment with legislation.
I know the argument about turning it into a rich man’s game. Everyone says that is what has happened to deer hunting. The only truth to that is in the price of leases and not many of us use leases when coon hunting. As far as the rest of it goes, I deer hunt and it hasn’t changed for me since I was a kid. Nothing special required just a rifle or bow. Everything else is up to you. You can still coon hunt in a pair of tennis shoes with a 2 cell flash light. I did it for years. So if you spend a lot of money or not, is strictly up to you.
I like the idea of it because I see it giving us a voice down the road as more money is poured into it. A national voice, to fight these idiots that think it is there life’s goal to save every little fury animal. Like them or not do you think you would still own a gun if it wasn’t for the NRA?

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

quote:

---

8. So who would benefit??? The registry and producer benefits by increased sponsorship and aid in covering their costs. The competitors get more notoriety and bigger prize money. And more people and companies would have a stake in the game. As Mike said, if our sport is giving a company a return on their investment, then that company will help ensure the future of our sport!

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 2785

Doing what you love is it's own reward ... doing something because you think it will make you famous or you can save a breed or sport and wanting everyone else to help out ... not even worth all the typing yall have done about it .

If you have a passion for filming coonhunting and genuinely want to share it .. then it might work , but folks can sense fakers and when their motivation isn't genuine.

All the reasons you need to do something are in your gut , if it aint there .... it aint anywhere else.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Dirtdevil - so what would be your argument if your passion is protecting the sport??? Do it, because that's your passion, or if it required the involvement of others, then don't waste their time???

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Drew - very good questions. Let me see if I can address each of them.

Gaining Sponsors - we had 6 commercial sponsors the first season, and 5 the second season. We kept the cost of our sponsorship down, so it was affordable for those wanting to help us get off the ground. So although we didn't get a return on our investment, the sponsors did. Four of our three biggest sponsors in Season 1, returned in Season 2. The one that didn't, had changed ownership, between seasons. The response was pretty phenomenal for one of them, who received well over a thousand requests for catalogs or orders each week we aired, by people specifically citing our show. Another sponsor had to remove the phone extension from their house because they were tired of all the calls during our night time airings, and yet another sponsor had to increase his distribution to cover new areas being requested by customers, who saw the show.

In fact, our title sponsor, F&T has since launched their very own show dedicated to just their products. They're footing the bill for the entire production and see a good return on their investment, through television.

Reaching out to sponsors - I'm not sure what you mean by "reaching out", because I personally contacted virtually every dog box manufacturer, most all of the major light companies, dog food companies, registries, truck manufacturers, and even Jim Beam distilleries!

Reason for not sponsoring - it was a mixed bag. A couple large companies felt we weren't thinking "big enough". In other words they wanted something like what we're describing now... a show, events, a whole PR campaign. The problem with any sponsorship is once you have a product sponsor they want exclusive rights to advertising their product. For example once you sign a light company, they don't want you using any other light. So, if you sign a couple products, you can't sign their competitors. That ruled out a lot of smaller companies. And other larger companies just weren't familiar with the magnitude of the sport. They would say that it wasn't their target audience, because of the size of the demographic, but they would sponsor a bird hunting show, when in fact the beagle, hound and cur dogs owners, far exceed the number of bird dog owners. So companies just don't understand our sport.

Ratings - The networks weren't utilizing ratings during our first season, and not fully communicating them during the second season. We now know, that our show was far exceeding a million viewers each week. However, ratings can't tell you which airing was watched, whether it was watched live, or DVR'd. They can only discern when their box "tuned in" over a seven day period.

In my opinion, we scratched the surface in our first two seasons, learned many ways to improve the production and return on investment. And while we did so, we started to show companies the potential. But it's a very circular argument... you get more sponsors on board, the show can afford to improve in quality and exposure, giving those sponsors a greater return and attracting new ones. The problem is, that too many, like to set-up a self fulfilling prophecy, like someone not watering a plant because they're convinced it's going to die. Then when it does shrivel up and die, they say, "see I told you so!"

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 229

We are on the ukc board but haven't heard anything out of "the" UKC. What has been their response to jumping on board with this?

As far as a regularly occurring show just focusing on competition hunts I would think once someone not intimately involved would see it a time or two their interest would dwindle. If it started out with just the big events it would probably draw more interest..... but maybe that's what you had in mind?

What happened that made the original show only last for 2 seasons without taking off?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Actually what we had in mind, was some coon hunting competitions, bench shows, a beagle field trial, competition squirrel hunts, etc. That would keep one week to the next interesting.

But again, don't forget that B.A.S.S. televises just bass fishing events. The location may change, but who can really tell from what you're watching??? People always say, "it will get boring" yet every week multiple networks air turkey hunts week after week!

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by take off? A season is 13 episodes airing over 3 months, and then re-runs, for another 3 months. And if you want time to film and produce, those 13 episodes take 6 months to complete before the next 26 week season. And while all that was going on my "day job" had me on the road for 40-45 weeks per year, and so I got wore out on doing both. Then I moved to Wisconsin, so my partners and the show have been on the back-burner for a couple years.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Meadville,PA
Posts: 106

Hey Dave I was just wondering what all you had to have and do to start up the tv show. Aside from sponsors. What equipment, kind of contacts, and other things.

__________________
CH 'PR' Ernsts Lacey
CH 'PR' Dutch Hill's Smokin Gun
'PR' Dutch Hill's Bawlin Bullet
Brittan Ernst

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Wow... the answer to that is very involved, and it took me two years of very expensive mistakes to learn enough to launch the first season! Here's a short list:

1. You'll have to produce a full episode to a network's lengthy technical specification, as a pilot, for approval.

2. You'll need multiple production grade cameras, microphones, audio recorders, etc. You can try to do it with one or two handy cameras, but it will look like it, and not likely be approved by a network.

3. You'll need a lot of computer horse power and memory to store all the audio and video, and have the ability to edit it. Again, you can try to use a cheap computer and software, but it will reflect in the quality of your production. And the Windows Movie Maker that came with your PC, won't handle the requirements the network will demand.

4. You'll need licensed music, video graphics and pay someone to perform closed-captioning.

5. etc. etc. etc.

So... find a couple camera men/women, a host, a producer/editor, someone creative to handle the graphics and music, as well as the editing, a company for the closed-captioning, a $3500 deposit for the network air-time if you get approved, and a lot of gas money. And of course, this doesn't cover the sponsorship sales, invoicing, receipts, contracts, hitting this forum trying to drum up business and/or protect your reputation.

And last but not least... thick skin!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 229

what I meant by "taking off" was - gaining additional sponsers, growing the shows popularity and maybe accomplishing some of the points that you'll are shooting for now. I did not see it so I dont know anything about it. and I guess what I was getting at was what would be any different to make it better than before so that it would succeed but if it was you guy's decision to end it all then that is irrelevant anyway. In skimming over some posts before my previous post I thought there was something about issues with sponsers.

What about UKC?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

This whole thread is about taking the show to a whole new level, making it a complete marketting campaign for a registry, and a team of sponsors.

I can't speak for UKC.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 229

????

Its just from previous posts that I had been under the impression that the show had failed... hadn't realized that you had pulled the plug yourself.

You have spoken about a registry in a good portion of your posts. This is a board for a registry - ukc. so far they haven't chimed in with any input or opinions.


Have you not spoken to anyone within the ukc at any time about your idea/plan? Any indication that they are interested in coming on board?

That was my question in a previous post. Its fine to kick around ideas but doubt any real sponsers or registries are going to just jump out of a message board. Unless this thread was an attempt to draw out a response from someone within UKC?

Last edited by VaBirdDog on 02-16-2013 at 04:13 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

The show never "failed"... it was well received by virtually all the viewers and supported by sponsors. But every season stands on it's own. A new block of air time has to be purchased, production costs have to be covered, and a willingness of the crew to put in the time.

And sponsors have to be signed and/or re-signed, before filming can begin. For our next season, we have a couple paths we can head down, with regards to format, one of them is what we have discussed here.

And yes, the concept has been pitched to multiple registries. But I can't speak on their behalf, and the purpose of this thread was to get the participants perspective.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Last edited by deschmidt27 on 02-16-2013 at 04:27 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 229

I guess I had Just assumed that it had "failed" because it went off air after the second season and looked to be in the reorganization phase per 2nd page of this thread. After you explained that it was due to you're schedule I understand that it was your decision to suspend production and that it wasn't due to lack of sponsers or viewers.... which i would have considered a show failing.

Well then I"ll ask myself just out of curiosity.

Someone from the UKC..... Where does the UKC stand on backing a project like this and airing UKC sponsered events in this format?

If you couldn't make a certain hunt it would be better to be able to see it on tv vs. the online "play by Play" or the after the hunt I got cheated posts LOL

deschmidt27 How would you do it - filming the night hunts? Follow certain guys from hunt to hunt? Would Think it would be next to impossible to just show up at a hunt and tag along to film a cast that has no idea how to be on tv. Some of the trials that are filmed, not for tv but professionaly, are basically just that filming each brace as they go through the course and they are hard to watch. Poor audio, poor scenes and no do overs. Sure it could be done, more realistic but probably not the best quality tv viewing. Lighting issues in the dark, sound issues in the woods and the fact that most of the guys there would be more concerned about trying to win Vs. making a good tv apperance? Just rambling and wondering about the logistics of actually filming a night hunt in a quality that would work for tv...

Last edited by VaBirdDog on 02-16-2013 at 04:58 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Viewership was never the problem, but escalating air time fees and production costs, will make sponsorship a challenge until you reach a steady-state with a repeatable format, like Waddel, Lee and Tiffany etc. Once you get a team of sponsors and partners you can repeat, one season after another.

We have solutions for audio, video and lighting challenges. They're no longer a problem for us. If you tried to film this as a standard hunting show with hosts and co-hosts performing a dialogue, that would have issues, just as you can imagine. BUT... if you film it like other sporting events, capturing the "action" as it happens, there will be plenty of excitement for a half hour episode.

You couldn't randomly film events, there would have to be a television series where X,Y, and Z events, casts and shows were going to be filmed. That serves two purposes... one, nobody is surprised or unwillingly to participate. They would know when they went to the event that it was to be filmed. Two, the knowledge of the event being televised is what would drive many of the participants... they would want the attention of a national stage.

And to keep it interesting, it would have to be a mix of different types of event, not just competition coon hunts. And we would need to capture some of the human interest aspect, like folks cutting up at the fair grounds, around the camp sites, at the tailgate, etc. to make a well balanced show reflective of our sport.

It probably sounds like a lot, but you can cover a lot of ground in a half hour show, with only a few minutes here and there. If you think about the average deer hunting show, they take you through the airport, introduce you to the outfitters, sight-in the guns, go on several hunts, and then take that monster buck at the very end. There's a lot covered, but ample opportunity to cut out the bloopers, and leave the good stuff.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

So the answer to this question since the very start of this thread, is the UKC and the other KC's need to do something themselves. A group of hunters aren't going to change the world of coon hunting into the proportions of BASS, no matter what kind of show you tried once. The UKC needs to front some money themselves as well as request more sponsorship money to do so for the bigger events. I would bet if this were to happen, you would see the Alphas in the hunts a lot sooner. One man bragging and trying to pat himself on the back on a forum is not going to make this happen any sooner, because it all falls on the shoulders of the UKC.

__________________
Walk softly and carry a big stick.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

Michael - I would say you are partially correct, in that there is a responsibility on behalf of a registry to make this happen. But, that won't happen without partners... a registry is not a producer, nor a network. So there has to be the willingness and desire on their end, as well. The producer and network, can provide the coverage, that would enable the registry to achieve more sponsorship. So it's a mutually beneficial relationship.

As far as "bragging" and patting oneself on the back... I've spent two pages simply trying to explain the options and philosophy behind this type of program. So that people could provide their feedback, and let the registry see the interest. On this page, however, a couple have asked some very specific questions on the how-to, and so I've answered those requests. I'm not sure I would call answering someone's specific questions with the details, as bragging, but that's your prerogative. However, since many people that had not seen the show, called this endeavor impossible, it would never work, etc. but we actually did do so, for a couple seasons, maybe a "pat on the back" is warranted.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Last edited by deschmidt27 on 02-16-2013 at 04:44 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: milan,mi
Posts: 1379

You have spent over two and a half pages explaining because you asked a question concerning the perception of bass. If you would have been upfront at the start it would not have taken 2.5 pages. Just say "we are trying or going to be trying to mimic the BASS concept and would it work". jmho

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Burlington, CT
Posts: 1758

I double checked and I never asked about perceptions or land, or many of the other topics that has consumed these 3 pages.

I asked how or why coonhunters are different from fisherman, our events versus B.A.S.S. because that's the excuse we had received in the past... that it works for them, but wouldn't for us.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: CANADA
Posts: 1903

I pitched this very idea to an outdoor network here in Canada a few years back. Tried to explain that it would do the same thing for competition coon hunting that BASS did for fishing. Was telling him about having updates and standings for diff things such as purina races, youth races, national and state races, as well as blue ribbon events. I was basically told there was no interest or a big enough following. He told me that everyone bass fishes and a very few coon hunt, and that the whole night time thing posed a difficuty in taping. I felt as though there was more excuses then enthusiasm. Tried to explain that every sport stated as an idea. Boy would I have loved to get in on the ground floor of the NFL. lol.

__________________
Dave Rude
Tru-Blu English
Home of Gr.Nt.Ch. Tru-Blu-Spike
Nt.Ch.ChKizmo's Tru-Blu Grit (MIA)
rudedogs99@hotmail.com
www.angelfire.com/oh5/trublu/trublu.html
http://www.acorn-creek.com/signatures/Grit.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 229

"C.O.O.N.
I've brought it up on this forum before, but can anyone tell me the difference between B.A.S.S. tournaments and our competition events?"


I sill don't understand why you don't consider the availability or the lack thereof of the resources required to actively participate would be a difference between the two sports and could possibly hinder new additions to the sport and being able to grow it into something even close to BASS? Or even those currently or previously involved for that matter. Without new people coming on board how do you drum up additional support and grow into something like BASS?

How do you not consider the way two sports are percieved by the general public to be a difference in the ability to market them to a network or mainstream viewers? And without marketability how do you have large majorly sponsored tournaments?

I know that the above is just circling back to the first page and isnt worth answering but I feel like you were given feedback to your original question as it was worded that most definitely pertained to it.

But from where we are now with it looking more like simply wanting to produce an outdoor themed tv series that hits on a registry supported/sponsered night hunt here and there we are a long ways from anything resembling a BASS tournament and I would say certainly more feasible in the near future. .....

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: milan,mi
Posts: 1379

quote:

---

Originally posted by deschmidt27
I double checked and I never asked about perceptions or land, or many of the other topics that has consumed these 3 pages.

I asked how or why coonhunters are different from fisherman, our events versus B.A.S.S. because that's the excuse we had received in the past... that it works for them, but wouldn't for us.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged