Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

have spoken to hundreds of people in canada and same in europe, system there not perfect by any means and they do priortize, people with serious issues go ahead of those with a blister on their hind end... not advocating we adopt systems in place in other countires, but that we have come to a point where ours needs updated to meet the needs of the people... gov't. is the focal point and does things we are unable to do for ourselves, this appears to be such an event... how we do health care to me is less an issue than the fact that we do something to make it better and more accessible...

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: West Point, MS
Posts: 436

quote:

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Originally posted by Buckshot
It doesn't take a big store like Walmart for that to happen.

I know a mom and pop store sells his dog feed higher than another mom and pop store cause the other mom and pop store has 2 store locations and purchases more.

That's business. Because one man owns 2 stores, he is getting a better wholesale price than the man that only owns 1 store because he is buying a higher quantity.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Cedar Mtn NC
Posts: 65

The most sickening thing of it all is seems like if you are not born in America, never worked in America, or payed any taxes in America you can get health coverage. I worked in this for 6 years. Makes me sick!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

I think it's time will come. Most industrialized nations have it. It is certainly not perfect, but it is better than no insurance for those that don't have insurance.

A lot of working people in this country (myself included) do have health insurance coverage through employment. Those who make below the eligibility thresholds for government coverage, Medicaid being the primary example, get good health insurance coverage. It's the working class people in between that get squeezed out. They work for a company that doesn't provide reasonable cost coverage, yet make too much to qualify for government programs. The self-employed small business operator often falls into this group. This is a real deterent to those that would like to start and operate their own small business (especially if they have a family, or someone in their family with health problems).

My cousin's friend from Great Britain claimed the wait over there wasn't bad, and that priority situations were expedited. A friend in Australia said they pay a little over 1% for national insurance, and that she pays about $80/month (US dollars) for private coverage. She did say that if you were strictly in the national plan, it was slow. The private coverage gets her a lot quicker access to health care.

Common sense tells you that a limited number of health care providers can only serve so many people in a certain amount of time. If you increased the volume of patients by giving everyone (adding the working poor) equal access to health care, you naturally would slow down the process. So the have's are covered, the have nots are covered (govt. assistance), those in between (no coverage, but not poor enough for govt. assistance) aren't covered.

Our life expectancy in the U.S. lags behind most industrialized nations in the world. They have national health care. We don't. Why are we so far behind these countries with national health care, when we are supposed to have the best health care system in the world? Could it be that slower access for all works better overall than quicker access to those with coverage and no access to those without coverage works?

Is health care a right or a privilege?

Rip. Do you support government health insurance? If yes, perhaps you could post the benefits that a national plan could provide. If not, would you stand firm in your convictions, and refuse government insurance such as Medicare and Medicaid? A principals or dollars question if you've ever seen one.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 764

What is sick is that.Wal-Mart moves into a town and kills the little man.My brother in-law works at Wal-Mart.He put in his notice and lets them know he found a 2$ less paying an hour Job and plus his new job was giving him health insurance after 30days.So what does Wal-Mart do.They try to offer him making 4$ more than he made and promoted him to Superviser for Staying.I can't stand Wal-Mart and don't shop at Wal-Mart.I would rather shop at the K-Mart down the road.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I should have specified, the Federal Government. State govenment is much better because it is easier for the people to reign in, and Local government is even better than that. Yes Federal involvement in schools is awful, they spend and spend and spend and the kids score worse and worse and worse.

You may or may not be aware of the fact that nobody can be refused life saving treatment at any hospital, and nobody can be refused care at any public hospital so in reality it is acessable to all. They may get billed for it the rest of their life, but they will get treated.

This leads to another HUGE problem, people that don't want to pay the 25 dollar office visit come to the ER for a cold and ring up 300 bucks at the expense of the people that actually pay their bills. Happened every single day at least 2-3 times a day in the rural ER I rotated at, happens on a much larger scale in the bigger hospitals. Many times the office for their regular doctor was across the street but they know an ER can not refuse them and they also have no intention of paying the 300 dollar bill, heck they wouldn't pay the 25 dollar one (in some cases their copay was as little as 5-10 bucks and they still did it).

Here's something to ponder on. The doctors office is the only place you can walk in and not know how much something costs, use that service, and walk out without paying anything.

The Canada system is really, bad and really, really expensive. The prices quoted for their procedures are artificially devalued. The laypeople don't know how much stuff is let go too long becasue the majority don't realize the seriousness of their condition. Doctors and nurses that have practiced there will tell a different tale because they understand the disease process more.

The Lawyer/insurance thing is the biggest player in the cost of health care, and they have this neat little way of making Hospitals and other providers look worse than they are in the picture. They make them bill more than they actually get paid. In other words they might bill the insurance company for 300 bucks for a procedure and only get 75. On paper for statistics it appears the provider received 300, but in reality it was 75 bucks.

As for the pay as you go system, you would be surprised. Because of all this hasle many physicians are not even taking insurance any more. They have their fees and you have to pay up front.

I know one insurance company that saved money by denying legitimate doctors expenses 3 times before they actually paid the bill cashing in on the ones that slipped through the cracks and the ones that just gave up. It's things like this that make them start not taking your plan etc.

Readers Digest has a pretty good section on Health Care in this issue that you may find very interesting. I thought it was a pretty good read and fairly informative. Their numbers are off a little, but I think that is due to the demographics. They claimed a colonoscopy cost 3300 bucks and I know for an absolute fact that a GI specialist here can only get about 1500-2000 max, a Surgeon can only get about 750-900 and a Family Practice doc can only get about 200-300 for a scope. I am thinking that is because most of their research was done in the New York area. They also said only about 20% of people billed by the doctors office ever paid a dime of the bill. I think that is higher in this area, about 30-40% or so actually pay their bill. This is why lots of docs are not taking insurance any more, they can charge less because of the hassel it saves them and they actually get their money.

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Last edited by Rip on 03-16-2006 at 04:31 AM

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Cedar Mtn NC
Posts: 65

When we have to refuse insurance plans at the pharmacy its because the insurance will not pay us what we pay fot the medicine. For example if something costs us $10 and your copay is $5 then your insurance company sends us a check for $2 we have given your medicine to you at $3 less than cost. Some doctors have quit accepting the same plans we have. Seems to be getting worse. I do not have insurance and pay for everything with cash. My doctors have been very reasonable because I don't have insurance. I work for myself and my husband also does. The cheapest I could find to cover us was $400 a month with a crappy deductable and out-of-pocket. Maybe someone, someday will have the answer.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

honalieh...

well thought and insightful post... pointed question as to health care being a right or a privilege... many today even in decent employment settings are having their health care benefits reduced with costs on the increase... all so good point about life expectancy, we also have higher rate of infant mortality, as well as other disease factors... not quality of care, but lack of access to it is the operative factor... we spend a higher % of the GNP for health costs here than in other countires that have universal health care ... in a perfect world all would be healthy or at least be able to afford needed health care when life becomes less than perfect, that would be the ideal, but quite far from the real which you have stated so well... sometimes conditions mandate choices that are less than perfect in this not so perfect world, but these choices can help to make things much better for many, such is the situation with implementing some form of uiniversal health care...

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Leonard,Texas
Posts: 444

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
No those entry level jobs are not worth paying health insurance because if they had to do that they would not exist period.

I can see it now, the poor family farmer ran out of business because he couldn't afford to pay for the teenagers hauling his hay health insurance.

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Jim Wigley
Burr Oak Blueticks

Last edited by J. Wigley on 03-16-2006 at 04:49 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
Is health care a right or a privilege?

Rip. Do you support government health insurance? If yes, perhaps you could post the benefits that a national plan could provide. If not, would you stand firm in your convictions, and refuse government insurance such as Medicare and Medicaid? A principals or dollars question if you've ever seen one.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by J. Wigley
Come on Rip don't be so darn stupid!! There is a big difference in Walmart and a farmer hauling hay.I hope your insurance covers mental health,because it sounds like you will be needing it.

Walmart sucks!!! And if I can find what I need at a mom and pop store I will gladly pay 15--20 % more.
Another thing I in most cases am not for hand outs and people who will not work.But there are millions of people working hard trying to get by and truly cannot get health care.That sucks when we live in a great country that gives billions to our enemys to shoot at us with.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

rip, are you a doctor?????????

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-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

In 51 more days I will have the official title of Medical Doctor.

I will start my first job as a doctor on July 1st (find out where tomorrow) and I will make a grand total of 10 dollars an hour for the next 5 years.

Been goin to school since 1992 and I will finally graduate on May 6th.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

TEN DOLLARS AN HOUR TO BE A DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


PLEASE EXPLAIN.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Nothing to explain, that's what I will make for the next 5 years. It's pretty much that way all over the US for Residency (different fields have different lengths, Family and internal are 3 years, I am doing Surgery so it is 5 years). Some places around New York or Cali will give a few dollars more but the cost of living is so much more it is actually less.

The salary will be 39,000 a year, hoping to get 40,000 but not counting on it. That seems like a good salary until you realize that I will work 80 hours per week actually at the hospital not counting research at home etc. That is still going to be the most money I have ever made in my life.

Match Day is tomorrow. At 1:00 every new doctor in the US will find out where they will be working at come July 1st.

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Last edited by Rip on 03-16-2006 at 05:14 AM

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Pinconning,Mi
Posts: 1323

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
As for me personally, I don't do much business with Wal Mart. It's not because of their pay to employees etc.

It's because I like smaller stores with less people where I can have a conversation with them and enjoy being there. I support the local owned businesses when I can for those reasons, and they are working their tail off to make it in life.

Is my not shopping at Wal Mart much gonna hurt them? No, but it might help my local friend out.

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Steve Beson
Pinconning MI

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

I would HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE to think that I went to school for 16 YEARS Just so i could make 10 an hour.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

Rip,
we again, are probably not as far apart as it may seem...
well aware of life style as a health factor, but many european nations smoke more, drink more, etc. are less obese... am a strong believer in genetics as big factor in health-longevity... not advocating national health insurance, but a national health plan that migh be insurance, public-private etc... Canada is not perfect, but provides service to more than we do... you are on target about people abusing the er for routine things and no doubt the fact that many never pay causes those of us who do to pay for them as well as ourselves... I never go to the doctor, should I get a rebate on health insurance for being healthy or oblivious to heath care, agree most insurance companies rip off the public and the medical profession... now for another point, do we train too many specialists and not enough basic primary care people... does eveyone need advanced residental experience to remove a splinter or dispense aspirin... are some medical education programs out of touch with the needs that they service.. should it take as long as it does to get educated for this type of medical service??? medical doctors are the only true profession, self regulating-controlling, the ama is the start-finish, know all do all etc.. how does one find out about how good a md might be, rare that one doctor tells anything not so good about one of his or her own, course some of the same in other professions as well... the nature of medical school education crates often a practicioner who treats illness, not people, also creates the pedestal effect, I the md am on on it the rest are not... not you, just a general observation... certainly defer to your judgement in medical issues, but the social impacts of the same are a different kettle of fish.. do believe some things are in fact privileges that are consitutionally supported, life-liberty-pursuit of happiness requires certain things to be in place, good health, security, might just fit in there...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I don't hate it at all. I am lovin it. See I didn't do it for the money and I don't know any doctor that did. It's because we can actually make a difference in peoples life, give them real help.

No matter how bad it gets the next 5 years, when I have been working 36 hours straight and have to go see more patients I still get to perform surgery and help my patients have a better life. Nothing is better than that.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

Rip, no offence, but something there just doesn't add up.

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

My older brother is going to nursing school to be an RN and he's gonna start out making anywhere from 20 to 30 an hour. So your telling me that he's gonna go to school for 3 or 4 years and be an RN and make 20 an hour and you went to school for 16 years and your gonna start out at 10 an hour?????

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Sheep, I know it flies in the face of your "rich doctor" thinkin, but here is the link to the official residency search page. It tells the salaries of the residencies and how many years they are.

Go to this website and perform the Residency search.

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida...1,1239,,00.html

Click on the Choose Specialty icon then General Surgery (or Surgery-general don't remember how it is listed) submit that. (don't go down to subspecailtys cause it isn't there, it's up at the top of the page).

Then when it goes back to the first screen click on Chose a location then just click on Tennessee and Georgia.

Then when it goes to the other screen click on Search Plus at the bottom of the page. That will line them up side by side and you can see the salaries. They all work an 80 hour in hospital work week which includes a call night or two with a minimum of 24 hours in house, with some going as high as 36.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

so is this part of your "schooling"???? Kinda like your getting to practice some before you start doing it on your own?????? Like on the job training??? Nurses do that also but they dont make anything. BUT THEY DONT DO IT FOR 5 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

Rip,
I would have to disagree with you about the md only does it to help others and not $$$... know quite few and have done a bit of research with those in the medical profession, agree most are dedicated to healing, but others have different motivations... $$$$, power, respect, etc... some of my family are mds.., one a plastic surgeon, one an internist- pathologist, another- female is also an internist with family practice... believe they make a little more than $10 per hour-lo... they studied long-hard to get to where they are and deserve what they get, they earn it..
Congratulations to you on completing many years of education-dedication-hard work to get that title of DOCTOR... sure you will be a great asset to the practice of medicine and to the patients who are fortunate enough to have you provide surgical care.... best of luck...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

Sheep and Doc, residency salary is around $35,000 to $40,000 a year.

Check out this past Sundays Parade magazine that comes in the Sunday newspaper. It's main story is what people are making across the country and what their profession is.

Look and see what a residency salary is.

Now after his residency, his salary will jump.

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