Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 562

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CGATEWD
[B]"IT AIN'T WORTH NOTHING UNTILL YOU SELL IT. WHATEVERY YOU GET OUT OF IT, THEN THAT'S WHAT IT WAS WORTH".
CGATEWD


Soooooooo True!!!! Your Daddy was a wise man!!


Jim Wigley

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Bostic North Carolina
Posts: 75

I think that $ 150.00 is a far price to pay for a pup. The reason I'm saying this is because all you are buying is hope & promise. There are no way you can tell that it's going to be a great dog. You would hate to pay $1000.00 for a pup that isn't worth $50.00 when it get Two Years Old. That is what I think.

David Bum.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 145

Everyone has said except for you coondogless,and they are your pups.Tell us about them,what your price is,and why they are worth that much.If you are expecting people to tell you that you should charge $500 or more per pup from what you have told us,you may be waiting awhile.I personally have raised several litters of pups and have a litter on the way now.The pups will be SS walker pups out of Nocturnal Kane and a Sacket III female.I will keep atleast three and I will probably ask around $175 for what is left and I will guarantee them to tree by one year old.I may have trouble selling them,even at that price.I am not raising them to make money,I am raising them to make coonhounds.Please let us know about your pups ,and what they are worth.Thanks...Mick

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Mick McLaughlin
Thunder Road Kennels
Augusta,Ks
Cell 316-518-0596

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 16

i think that it should somewhat reflect the caliber of the sire and dam, the cost of what you have wrapped up in the pups and if you truely believe it will help better the breed of coonhound that you are breeding, supply and demand also plays a big part if you have many ppl that are willing to pay a few hundred dollars per pup than it wouldnt be out of the ? to ask that much... its all in the eye of the beholder!!..jmo Aron Nieland

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Palatka, Florida
Posts: 1014

quote:

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[i]Originally posted by hamiltoncounty .. its all in the eye of the beholder!!..jmo Aron Nieland [/B]

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My name is Leon Silcox and I wrote this message.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 145

"How does a person Guarantee pups to tree? If they fail to tree, what happens? Interestimg comments for sure."
Moneyback or another pup as long as the dog is healthy and all papers are in order,that's how.

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Mick McLaughlin
Thunder Road Kennels
Augusta,Ks
Cell 316-518-0596

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Palatka, Florida
Posts: 1014

Mr. McLaughlin,

That sounds like it could be a good deal for both the buyer and the seller. Also that's how to get pups raised to hunting age and size for the seller if the buyer is not happy. Sounds interesting.
Thanks for the comments

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My name is Leon Silcox and I wrote this message.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Bostic North Carolina
Posts: 75

How many breeders are going to tell you that they have had pups returned ? I don't think any are going to tell you because most tell what you what you want to hear so they can sell a pup.
I think there are to many puppy factorys out there now. Like i said before i think $100.00 to $ 150.00 is more than a fare price to pay for a good pup. Too many think can happen while traning a puppy. In all my years of coon hunt which is 30 years I have hunted with only two great dogs, have saw several fare dogs.
ONE GOOD DOG THAT I HAVE HUNTED WITH WAS A COLLIE DOG. HE WOULD TREE EVERY COON IN THE WOODS BUT SILENT ON TRACK. Believe it are not.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 23

A Fool and His Money Are Easily Parted.

I don't care who the mommy and daddy is, there is no 8 week old puppy worth $1000. I see the ads, makes me sick to my stomach. The way I figure, if those pups are so good then why do you have to run 3 page ads to sell them. Don't get me wrong, those studs were great studs but if you always do what you always done then you always get what you always had. We can't keep breeding to dogs of yester years. We have to move forward not maintain what we have.. 300- 400 is a good price for me. not for a puppy out of a proven coondog but a puppy out of proven reproducers of coondogs. But hey what do I know, I'm from mississippi....

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Ricky T

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Independence, Kentucky
Posts: 1348

quote:

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Originally posted by bum280
How many breeders are going to tell you that they have had pups returned ? I don't think any are going to tell you because most tell what you what you want to hear so they can sell a pup.
I think there are to many puppy factorys out there now. Like i said before i think $100.00 to $ 150.00 is more than a fare price to pay for a good pup. Too many think can happen while traning a puppy. In all my years of coon hunt which is 30 years I have hunted with only two great dogs, have saw several fare dogs.
ONE GOOD DOG THAT I HAVE HUNTED WITH WAS A COLLIE DOG. HE WOULD TREE EVERY COON IN THE WOODS BUT SILENT ON TRACK. Believe it are not.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 1490

$500 would be fair but the world isn't fair. The last 5 pups I've had one came from a stud owner and breeder, three were given to me by friends, one I paid $25 for. The $25 dog made one of the best I've ever owned. The three that were given to me made fair dogs all treeing coon alone. The one from the breeder never amounted to anything. Was that fair to me?

People do pay alot for lap dogs but all they have to do is crap and bark. A coon dog has to do a lot of thing and not do a lot of things to make a keeper. If anyone wants to make money raising pups you're better off to get two lap dogs.

There are more pups being produced then people wanting them, so I guess supply and demand is a key factor.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 285

$100-$250. that's fair. Who has to make money on the dogs? If you can get food for the dog for awhile and something to put forth towards a tracking collar or put away for Vet bills. Anymore than that is starting to get a little greedy, in my opinion.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Independence, Kentucky
Posts: 1348

As tight as some of you old boys are, it is a wonder if you ever spent money on any dates so as to entice a woman into matimoney. LOL

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: tekonsha mich
Posts: 2025

in my opinion there is always a demand for good puppies, by this i mean from good stock with good pedigrees. i have only raised 5 litters but each cross was a female of more than ample ability and i bred them to studs i thought would cross well with what i had. I personally havent had any problems selling my puppies at $300 . i guess ive been lucky and the fellas buying the pups knew my females. i think 200 to 300 for a good bred pup is a very fair price but i wouldnt charge more than that because i like to see everyone be able to afford one if they want one.



later warn

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 507

well we all have an opinion. mine is if a dog bred to a certain dog produces above avg dogs. just say for instance. the sire and dam of the witch doctor-and his two sisters. now if i owned the dam and i bred her back to the same sire i dont think i would sell one under a 1000. probally wouldn't sell one at all. would get them started and then sell them.one of them sold for well over 10,ooo. if the cross is just a cross sure 200-300 but if u have a female that throws winners anyone would be a fool to sell it for that. i'll pay 1000 for a pup if its from a proven cross. wont blink an eye doing it either. while i'm winning the cast and your sucking hind tit. you get what you pay for. i'll take the proven crosses. you can do the expermenting. see you in the winners circle or......will i

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I wonder if some of you cheapskates have ever properly raised a pup in your life.

If you feed a good QUALITY feed then you are not making a profit at 2-300 a pup. If you properly raise a pup they need to have been to the vet 2 times by the time you sell them, complete with a vet record.

Why, cause even though I know what I am doing and could give my own shots the only assurance the buyer has that they have been taken care of and properly wormed/vaccinated is a VET RECORD from a third party. Also the vet can see things that laypersons can not and has the knowledge to do something about it.

This does not take into account your time to build a whelping box, socilize the pups, exercise them, begin training them not to bark in the pen etc.

You do all that and still tell me 100 bucks is fair. I think not.

If you think all there is to raising pups is to let the dogs do what comes naturally, throw in a handfull of cheap feed, go to the co-op and buy second rate vaccines or no vaccines at all, and never get off your tail to interact with the pups then I guess 100 bucks would be more than fair cause you have already lowered any chances they ever had of making a decent dog.

Don't get me wrong, I never made a dime on pups in my life, but I sure ain't gonna tell somebody else that they charge too much etc. They are worth what the buyer wants to pay for them period. If they want it bad enough they will pay for it. I have always been satisfied to know that they went to a good, hunting home and took just enough money to pay for the vet/feed bills and my time. Course folks got pups that were not shy, did not bark in the pen, well fed, healthy, and vaccinated.

Having healthy pups is not a money making proposition at 2 or 3 hundred a pup with all things considered. You would have to get up around 350 or 4 before you started making any kind of profit. By the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money on pups, don't know why some folks act like there is. Just cause I don't aspire to make a profit with my pups doesn't mean somebody else shouldn't.

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Let's go huntin

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 145

It's my opinion if you are breeding pups to make money,you are breeding them for the wrong reasons.I understand that anything less then $300 you are probably not making any money.I still will never pay $1000 for a coonhound pup.Bond 007,you say you wouldn't hesitate to pay $1000 for a proven pup,how many have you bought?Proven crosses are hog wash for the most part.When a cross is succesful the first time,it is very seldom as succesful the second,and the percentage will go down the more the cross is made.I would rather by a young dog that is already started and I can tell alittle about them,wich I can also be bought for around $1000.Good luck though.....Mick

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Mick McLaughlin
Thunder Road Kennels
Augusta,Ks
Cell 316-518-0596

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I raise several litters a year, and over the past years I have kept records of "expenses" related to raising pups.

I am here to tell you the you can raise pups "on the cheap" for next to nothing. You can not worm them, not vaccinate them, feed them generic feed....and have very little invested in them at all.

However, if they are vet checked, vaccinated, wormed, fed quality feed and given proper care, registered in three registries with futurity nominations paid I have an $268.73 invested in each pup that leaves my kennel at 8 weeks old. I pay to keep the female here for the other 11 months a year, and even though I hunt the females there is some expense involved in breeding her that is not included in her upkeep the other 10 1/2 months that she is not reproducing.

If I cant get $250.00 per pup out of a litter (remember at that rate I am losing $18.75 for every pup that leaves here) that is just a travesty. Not to make anyone mad, but you guys that want to buy pups out of proven males and proven females for $100.00 a pup......you need to raise your own.

There is no guarantee in the world that once a pup leaves my kennel that it will get the quality of care, or the training that it would have when it leaves here.

Buying a pup for $250.00 or $300.00 is an investment. You are buying the raw ingredients for making a coon dog. You might have to buy 4 pups at that price to get a dog that is worth $1200 to $1500 at a year and a half old. Do the math... once in a while you will stumble on a $50.00 pup that grows up to be an outstanding dog....but most of the time you get what you pay for!

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Joe Newlin
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Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Another thought:

(Can you tell that I am worked up over this topic?)

You go to the local trade days and pay $100.00 for a pup, a guy in your club just bought a $1,000 pup.

Your pup you take home, and put it in the kennel to wait until it is old enough to train. The guy with the $1,000 pup takes it in the house to meet the family, makes regular vet checkups, and turns the pup loose in the yard each night.

At six months old, your $100.00 pup has been out of the kennel a few times, and you are ready to introduce it to hunting. At six month old the $1000.00 pup has already been taught to lead, load, and has been treeing hang up coon for a month.

I just believe that if you have more invested in a pup, the average guy is going to work harder to return his investment than the guy that pays less for a pup. I am sure that there are exceptions to this, but I truly believe that folks who invest more in a pup work harder at getting their money back.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Bostic North Carolina
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$ 100 to $ 150, really. I bet you take the crowbar to the grocery with you to open your wallet when you have to pay for your food. At $ 300, the breeder is not making any money. When you factor in the cost of quality food, shots, and time, (s)he is in fact losing money.


No i don't take a crowbar to the buy grocerys. I don't think I would buy a pup for $300.00 unless it's was from someone that I know, and the male & female both would have to be great dogs. The cross would have to been made several time before with at less a 95% of the pup. makeing good or great dogs.

THE PROBLEM IS BREEDERS ARE SELLING PUPS. FROM UNPROVEN CROSSES OR FEMALES THAT THEY DON'T EVEN HUNT. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE SO MANY PUP THAT NEVER MAKE IT OR ARE JUST MAKE ME TOO DOG.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Marshall I.N.
Posts: 642

Their is no such thing as a proven cross that is a load of bull that is used to fool the gullable It has been proven time and time again if you cross hound A and hound B five diffrent time's the outcome is never the same in relation to the ability of the offspring .

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 507

KSCOONER seeing how you singled me out i probably have more money in my dogs than you have in your house, nad most likely your truck to go with it.
As far as proven cross i guess that's why there's not even a historical top ten.(right) Late Night Hooker for example, is a very nice cross of Rock River Sacket JR. x Lippers Stylish Queen. She (hooker) is a PCH so happens Master Latch is her full brother and is a 2 years differences in age Hooker was born in 96' Master Latch was Born in 11/97. So this throws your hogwash out the window. I have a full litermate sister to Master Latch that money won't buy. Go Fiqure. This is not the only one i can show but one of many. and Good Luck but i probably won't see you in any winner circles....

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Home of :
Dual Grand Wicked Triple Threat
.....................PLATIUM CH MOOSE
...........PLATIUM CH ZEB AGAIN
.....................PLATIUM CH RUBY
GOLD CH TRIPLE THREAT
.....................PLATIUM CH STY CLOVER
............SILVER CH LATE NITE TRICK
.....................GOLD CH SNUG
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 145

So,Oakridge the breeders who are asking $1000 for a pup are doing it so the people who buy the pup will hunt it?I don't get that reasoning.If I wanted to get my pups in the right peoples hands I give the pup to the person I want to have them.I repeat ,if I pay $1000 for a 7 week old pup,he better be able to tree a coon by 10 weeks,because I can go buy a older pup for $1000 that can.If I see guys that ask $1000 for pups putting a guarantee on their pups then I will give them more respect,until that time I will believe they are just trying to fleece their fellow coonhunters.If someone is plain stupid enough to pay it,then I guess that is their fault.Yes if you take your dogs to a vet and have them baby sit them you can rack up a huge amount.I feed a good quality feed,worm the bitch while she is pregnant with Nemex and worm the pups every 2 weeks after they are born and give my own puppie shots starting at 6 weeks.I will challenge anyone to show me pups any healthier then mine.I don't make money on my pups,but I am raising a litter so I can have a pup,not to make money.I don't live in a high coonhunting area so I do have to ask less just to move my pups.Like I said,I have no problem with proven breeders asking $300 up to $500 for their pups,but $750 and up is just guys ripping people off,sorry.

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Mick McLaughlin
Thunder Road Kennels
Augusta,Ks
Cell 316-518-0596

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Augusta,Ks
Posts: 145

Bond,why are you putting me down?You wouldn't have to invest alot to have more money then my house or my truck.I only singled you out to call your attention to my post I did not mean it as an insult,or challenge.You have invested alot of money does not impress me,I have dogs that I am proud of aswell.I know there are a ton of great crosses,what I am saying is each time you make a cross the percentages goes down.It is a genetically proven fact,sorry.By the way I have been to one major PKC hunt this year(Red River Classic) and I got in the final four ,I have been to one UKC hunt a qualifing hunt and my dog is qualified.I did not mean any of this as a personal insult Bond,but I will put my $150 pup against anyones and he will be at the Super Stakes in October,hope to see you there.

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Mick McLaughlin
Thunder Road Kennels
Augusta,Ks
Cell 316-518-0596

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

KSCOONER,

Honestly, I can not speak to the motivations of those breeders that are asking $1000 for a pup.

I believe that it is a supply and demand issue. The simple fact is that a pup is worth EXACTLY what someone is willing to pay for it. If the sire and dam are proven reproducers and there is a high likelyhood that it will be the next best thing since sliced bread....folks are gonna fork out some cash for it. Nobody is "forcing" anyone to pay big dollars for a pup from any cross. As a breeder, you are free to set the price at any figure you want. If someone wants one, they can either pay the asking price, or complain becuase he don't have the money.

I don't see where it is any of anyone else's business to say that a pup is not worth what someone is asking for it. Bashing honest breeders, or owners of outstanding females for demanding what they feel is a true market value of a pup serves only to make it look like those of us who sell pups that the average man can afford look jelouse.

I will always believe that a man will cull a pup that he paid $100 for a lot quicker than one he pays $1000 for! It's all a part of marketing.

I for one think that the price of pups is a little too low. I raise Jack Russels and Welsh Corgis too. I get more for the yard yappers that do nothing but eat feed and make yellow spots in my yard than I do for a coon hound pup that you can enjoy for 10 years or more. I also raise pups so that I can have a "steady supply" here for myself.

If you really want to see the quality of pups increase....change the mindset that "brood females" are okay! Anybody ever get a REALLY GOOD pup out of a brood female?

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Joe Newlin
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Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Last edited by Oak Ridge on 05-03-2005 at 07:05 PM

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