Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris.S
The only thing worse than a crooked hunting judge is a crooked NON HUNTING JUDGE. The worse eyeball gouging scr... job I've ever received was at the hands of a non hunting judge!

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Larry Atherton

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Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:

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Originally posted by Jammie Crumpton
How about get rid of the NON HUNTING COMPUTER INTERNET HUNTERS

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Roanoke Rapids N.C.
Posts: 559

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffrey robinso
It was stated in an earlier post that most people don't know what goes into putting on a hunt and that is very true. I am a member of 4 different clubs and know first hand what goes into putting on a hunt. I hear these statements about non hunting judges or why don't your club put on a RQE or big hunt. I wish UKC would make it mandatory that you had to have a card proving you were a member in good standing in a coon club to participate in UKC events then everyone would know what goes on behind the scenes to make these hunts happen and then they would think before they made these statements.

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Posts: 111

I just started to participate in these events in Washington State and I am currently working on bringing them to Idaho. I don't think these events could be facilitated with out hunting judges in here.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: iowa
Posts: 14

people always whining about got cheated this and that. just pack a litte better hound and them problems will take care of themselves usually.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Posts: 864

quote:

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Originally posted by karl spillane
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THAT ONE!!

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Last edited by headless01 on 02-29-2012 at 05:42 AM

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Location: West Alexandria, Ohio
Posts: 226

I really don't know what the right answer is, I belonged to a good club when I lived in Missouri that really tried to treat everyone right but I hunted at others within a 150 mile radius where buddies would end up in a cast against you. I'm not a crybaby or only an internet hunter, I had the high scoring dog in the state of Missouri a couple of years ago and won the nite champion hunt at walker days(875, not 1750), I've placed in the top 4 of the world hunt a couple of times, etc. All I know is something has to be done to keep things honest, anyone who is denying this is either kidding himself or is part of the problem.

Tom

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the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

Last edited by headless01 on 02-29-2012 at 10:06 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

quote:

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Originally posted by headless01
the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

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Larry Atherton

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by headless01
the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

i can agree it doesnt all work like it should but the only really bad call i have ever been involved with ukc made... how does ukc justify not scratching a dog for fighting on a 3 to 1 vote at the winter classic.... because according to them the judge has all authority lol.... especially when it involved the judges dog... that right there was screwed up bad but as a whole i have very little problems at the hunts whether im judgeing or not

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 864

quote:

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Originally posted by barrelmaker
I really don't know what the right answer is, I belonged to a good club when I lived in Missouri that really tried to treat everyone right but I hunted at others within a 150 mile radius where buddies would end up in a cast against you. I'm not a crybaby or only an internet hunter, I had the high scoring dog in the state of Missouri a couple of years ago and won the nite champion hunt at walker days(875, not 1750), I've placed in the top 4 of the world hunt a couple of times, etc. All I know is something has to be done to keep things honest, anyone who is denying this is either kidding himself or is part of the problem.

Tom

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Last edited by headless01 on 02-29-2012 at 06:34 PM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Well they hunted over 500 at Walker Days last weekend and that don't seem very dead to me. Heck, they hunted more than 30 at Silver Lake a couple weeks ago and that's in the dead of winter.

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4252

ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Johnson
ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

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Last edited by Cowboyred on 02-29-2012 at 08:00 PM

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: silver lake
Posts: 1505

how many on this thread really belong to a club

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

quote:

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Originally posted by Wmagicwebb
how many on this thread really belong to a club

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 890

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Johnson
ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cowboyred
Currently/actively 4 of them, 3 of them are 70+ miles away. Used to be in several others as well but they are no longer holding events or have shut down.

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Last edited by headless01 on 03-01-2012 at 12:22 AM

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: West Alexandria, Ohio
Posts: 226

I'll give you an example of what trying to stand up to a group of cheaters gets you. A couple of years ago I had the high scoring dog of the year in the Missouri coonhunters Association. They have a big end of the year hunt each year and I entered the dog, the cast they put me in consisted of 3 club members who came to the hunt together. The first drop my dog shut the others out, the judges dog came into the tree and chewed the devil out of my dog, even as we were coming in to the tree. I told the judge the dog should be scratched, he and his buddies just laughed and he refused to scratch the dog. The next drop the dogs hit together and treed and the same thing happened, the dog was a female and my dog wouldn't even try to defend himself, had blood running off him. Again, the judge refused to scratch his dog and his buddies went along with him. I withdrew, made notation on the card and went back to the clubhouse to see the master of hounds. The cast eventually came in and guess what? the judge had the high scoring dog of the hunt. The master of hounds questioned the other cast members and they all denied the dog was aggressive. I never went back to their club and I'm not the only one, it's a shame but people seem to be getting worse every year.

Tom

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

I'm not saying that situations like the one you described can't/don't happen, cause they sure can. I know that sometimes no matter what, you are not going to get satisfaction. But I also refuse to buy into the mentality that the "MAJORITY" are crooked cheaters willing to do whatever it takes to win. I just don't see it. Maybe there are some areas that are as bad as you described, but again I haven't seen it. And it's not like I haven't been out and about either, last year alone I hunted in six (6) different states and at two national breed days events. Every cast had a hunting judge. Were there mistakes made, sure. Were there some attempts at "liberal" interpretations of the rules, a couple. Did everything get resolved correctly, in my opinion they were and I didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak. Did everybody "play nice", nope, and several of them didn't play very long either.

The three biggest issues that I experienced were 1) people either not knowing/understanding the rules 2) getting mixed up with what KC's rules we were hunting under or blending rules from other KC's with UKC rules 3) handlers unable to recognize or unwilling to admit that the dog at the end of their lead was just not the caliber it was going to take to be competitive that night.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: West Alexandria, Ohio
Posts: 226

I didn't mean to imply that cheats are the majority, most hunters are honest as they can be but something needs to be done. Can you imagine what a basketball or football game would be like were there no referees? That's what we have, more or less and if we have to have hunting judges there should be some serious accountability if they continually cheat and some of the high profile hunters/breeders are way worse than the average Joe, Walker Days is coming up in Indiana, would you like to make a bet on who's dog will win?

Tom

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

Nope, I haven't got a clue who to even pick as a possible contender.

Last time I went to walker days I got asked/assigned to be a back-up judge on a GrNt. cast. Did that make me like a second referee?

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1400

quote:

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Originally posted by barrelmaker
I didn't mean to imply that cheats are the majority, most hunters are honest as they can be but something needs to be done. Can you imagine what a basketball or football game would be like were there no referees? That's what we have, more or less and if we have to have hunting judges there should be some serious accountability if they continually cheat and some of the high profile hunters/breeders are way worse than the average Joe, Walker Days is coming up in Indiana, would you like to make a bet on who's dog will win?

Tom

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: silver lake
Posts: 1505

quote:

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Originally posted by karl spillane
GREAT IDEA!!

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