Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:

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Originally posted by starplott
That is correct. However, if somebody has proof they are legally within their constitutional rights to carry a concealed weapon...you do not have the right to interfere. Infringing on civil liberties and constitutional rights is not a right we have.

This is something that needs to be handled at the club level. If the club doesn't want to allow such at hunts, the club can make it in their bylaws that under no circumstances are firearms allowed on a person at their club events. If that is not a written rule with the club that they have made clear to everybody...that constitutional right is protected.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
Posts: 8757

Why would anyone want to carry on a coon hunt anyway? A fear of the unknown or what? A gun in the posession of a scared person is a dangerous thing!

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Johnny Williams

Last edited by Bluedogman on 01-24-2012 at 05:52 PM

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

Who ever thought common sense would be an oxymoron...

I know the testosterone levels in young men is 20% lower than it was 20 years ago...but does the IQ points have to go down substantially too?

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
That is the problem for now. It is wrighten clearly in the rules that NO GUNS is allowed. We need to have our breed associations bring it up and get a rule wrote up and passed to permitt a person with a permitt to carry to do so at the events.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: london ohio
Posts: 609

well i think you people are stressing way to much most coonhunters i know are hardworking family men and would not mess up there lifes just because they have a permit obviously they have a reason for having it and its not mine nor your obligations to put your input in it. i dont see any harm in it at all

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Benton, KY
Posts: 715

quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
guy's that carry ccp are gay anyways and have ego problems and are the two hour maniacs that i don't want to hunt with anyways if i knew you were packing i'd scratch myself there is no place for guns at hunts just because you pass a background check doesn't mean your sane imo.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 887

well i will be the first to tell everyone that not only do i agree with the process of the ccp but i think it is a good thing. my only point and problem with this whole situation is that the rules set by ukc in regards to the hunts says no guns, it is in black and white. if ukc wants to ammend the rule to say it is ok to carry one as long as you have a ccp then that is fine. but as long as the rules say no guns allowed, then if i see someone on a cast with me ccp, no ccp, or " oops i forgot to take it out because it is kill season at home" i will scratch them and let the moh and ukc straighten it out..... that is jmo

oh yeah starplot, i aint no idiot. as a person who proudly served in the marine corps, i do know what a ccp is. it is people like you that think you are more educated and smarter than everybody that tries to spell out ( or think you need to draw a picture with a crayon for the people that dont understand) your opinion on everything that anyone disagrees with you on or states thier own opinion. i have my CIVIL RIGHT to have an opinion and to say what i think whenever and whereever i either wish or want to. thank you and may god bless you..... mike

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

I think you missed a huge factor!

You have heard from UKC (in writing) and from several of us who are MOH that conceal to carry is permissible. Yet you state you will scratch somebody on a cast for conceal carry with CWP?

Did you not learn in the marines to follow directions of those in authority? If UKC VP puts in writing that conceal carry w permit is not against the spirit of the rules and deems such permissible...that is the way it stands. PERIOD (UKC is the entity in authority for making, interpreting, and enforcing the rules)

Choosing to scratch somebody for something UKC has put in writing as permissible...have fun with that one. That almost tops one who minused a dog track points because he stopped to take a **** for three seconds while on track. I guess some people just feel entitled to make their own rules.

UKC and several MOH's have ironed it out. Did you not read? It is written in black and white (see page 1).

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Last edited by starplott on 01-25-2012 at 06:48 AM

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 887

when todd or anyone from UKC changes the rule in at least 1 of the three permissable forms of the rules (rule book, back of scorecard, or in the advisor) then it will be permissable, and only then should YOU OR ANY OTHER master of hounds allow any kind of variences of the rules... if todd got on here and said that billy joe jimbob was allowed to take a thermal imaging camera to the woods with him and use it to help find the coon because he was the chief of the local vol. fire department. but only firemen could use them because they have taken classes and know how to use them propperly. would you as a moh allow him to take it to the woods and use it or would you scratch him for using an unautherized visual aide???????
no offence to todd or anyone at ukc, but what you are trying to say is that someone from ukc can gat on here and override any rule written in black or white. IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY FOR 1 MAIN REASON... for a rule to be overruled by ANYONE all people that potentially may be involved MUST be able to see in writing any rules changes and not all coon hunters have the internet or the message board. so anyone can say anything they want to but if it is not in writing it dont matter..... mike

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
todd kellam
UKC Moderator
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 4312

United Kennel Club respects, defends and even encourages your right to lawful concealed carry. We have no restrictions towards lawful concealed carry. Our no guns policy is primarily directed towards 1) gun trading on the grounds during an event 2) open carry on casts 3) unlawful carry at any time 4) to a lesser degree having rifles in vehicles on a cast. We don't go so far as to search trucks but would take action against illegal transport because it could jeopardize the issue of state permits to conduct nite hunts.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 887

show me where it is in print, on the message board doesnt matter. read the rules mr moh there are 3 places that rules go from ..... THE RULE BOOK, THE BACK OF THE SCORE CARD, AND THE ADVISOR........ that is in the rules, it is nowhere stated anywhere in the rules that the message board constitutes a place to rewrite the rules. we could take our phones and download any changes that are put on the message board and keep them with us on the hunts....... oh yeah the new rules states that you can be scratched for USING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and talking (or playing games or texting ) on your cell phones while hunting, you were talking earlier about CIVIL RIGHTS how about someone telling you you cant talk on your cell phone during the hunt or you will bw scratched... i own a business and i will have my phone on me at all times and if it is a work related call i will use my phone.... mike

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

Since when is use of thermal imaging devices part of our constitutional rights? No comparison.

I'm sorry, when you ask UKC to clarify a rule, and they do in writing...that is the way the rule is to be interpreted. I'm not about to go against what UKC has put in writing on how a rule is interpreted just because I disagree or think my interpretation serves me better.

That guy thought he was in the right minusing the dog for quitting track for taking a crap too. Where does it state a dog is not minused for taking a crap was his defense. It didn't go over very well.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

quote:

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Originally posted by copperheadcreek
show me where it is in print, on the message board doesnt matter. read the rules mr moh there are 3 places that rules go from ..... THE RULE BOOK, THE BACK OF THE SCORE CARD, AND THE ADVISOR........ that is in the rules, it is nowhere stated anywhere in the rules that the message board constitutes a place to rewrite the rules. we could take our phones and download any changes that are put on the message board and keep them with us on the hunts....... oh yeah the new rules states that you can be scratched for USING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and talking (or playing games or texting ) on your cell phones while hunting, you were talking earlier about CIVIL RIGHTS how about someone telling you you cant talk on your cell phone during the hunt or you will bw scratched... i own a business and i will have my phone on me at all times and if it is a work related call i will use my phone.... mike

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 887

you still dont get my point, i am not against guns. but what is said on this message board doesnt matter. it has to be in the rule book, the advisor or on the back of the score card... for it to matter

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1876

next thing you know it will be legal to smoke pot at ukc events as long as you have a prescription ! lol

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Sheridan,Ar.
Posts: 121

quote:

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Originally posted by starplott
That is conceal carry, Mike (to carry not visible to people, for chc's benefit).

What chc is talking about is open carry (to carry in plain view). Many states have an open carry w/o permit. Which allows some people to carry if the piece is in plain view without a permit. However, such law does NOT allow convicted fellons, those who have domestic violence, and sometimes other convictions to open carry by law (people with open restraining orders or on probation where such is against the order) and it is a felony for those folks to open carry or even have a gun in their possession. Misdemeanor for under age to open carry.

Granted it does not stop those who can't legally open carry from doing so. Once the piece is not in view, it becomes concealed, and a CWP is required. So, for a person to without a permit to open carry (providing they are within the scope of the law to do so) it is legal. BUT, once a jacket covers it, it goes in a jockey box, is covered on seat with shirt/hat/paper/etc it becomes illegal (as it becomes a concealed weapon) if the owner does NOT have a CWP.

Chc's rationale is that they are one in the same/equal and UKC should allow non permitted people to open carry if they are going to allow permit holding conceal to carry. Therefore assuming everybody who carries a firearm openly is legal to do so like every permitted person is legal to carry concealed. Which is impossible for anybody to know if an open carry is being done legally without doing a background check.

Now, IF states permitted open carry (for chc's benefit again, required a background check and gives you a permit stating you are legal to open carry) this would be a moot point. But they don't. Until then the only way one could tell for sure that somebody without a CWP is in fact legal to open carry is to call law enforcement and have them sort it out by running a check on the spot.

Anybody with a CWP has to carry their permit. That permit is legal proof of right to carry. Unless somebody has a CWP in their possession, it is just an assumption made that a person is within legal realm to carry a firearm in the open. An assumption UKC/clubs cannot afford to make.

I still am sticking to what I stated. You have a CWP and carry concealed at a hunt...we are all good no matter how many people know about it. I see a firearm in the open and the exit will be shown and hunt for that person will be over. If a person shows up at a hunt w an open carry there will be a discussion that will end in being asked to leave if a CWP cannot be produced.

In this f'd up state, it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm out hunting. You get caught w a round in the chamber and you don't have game to shoot in your sight...that is NOT a good thing. You cannot even carry a leaded riffle in your truck. Other states I have lived in were not as anal as WA.

Go figure...

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: north carolina
Posts: 887

UKCŪ NITE HUNTS
OFFICIAL NITE HUNT HONOR
RULES effective January 1, 2011
* Denotes rule change made for 2011
In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC
Coonhound Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound
Advisor columns in COONHOUND BLOODLINES contain
additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations
of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC
events. All event activities, rules, policy applications and
interpretations are subject to the final decision by UKC in
its sole judgement and discretion.


page 5 of the rule book
Notwithstanding anything herein, UKC reserves the right
to itself and its sole judgment and discretion to change,
at any time, any UKC Rules and/or Policies as written in
this rulebook. Any such changes will be published in
COONHOUND BLOODLINES and updated in the Rule
Sections on the UKC website at www.ukcdogs.com


this next part is on page 63 of the UKC OFFICIAL rule book ( not only in the rulebook but in BOLD LETTERS in its own box

ABSOLUTELY NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES,
GAMBLING, FIREARMS OR ILLEGAL DRUGS WILL
BE ALLOWED ON THE GROUNDS OR WHILE
PARTICIPATING IN THE HUNT OR IN THE
BUILDINGS THE DAY OF A UKC LICENSED EVENT

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 169

I think many of you are forgetting the main point it's CONCEALED carry. When I carry you won know it that's the point. If you do see it I'm guilty of brandishing a weapon. Keep it concealed and there will be no worries.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 2814

Someone asked on how I feel about the concealed weapons law in Illinois. It recently came up for a vote and was denied. I hunt with law enforcement guys who have the right and do carry concealed weapons while we are hunting. No problem. Heck, we ran upon a meth lab one day while training dogs. I was glad he had a weapon.

If Illinois allowed concealed weapons, I would certainly obtain a permit. But, I wouldn't carry a concealed weapon on a cast. The cast I was on where the fellow was carrying a concealed weapon, in my opinion, he was trying to use it as an intimidation ploy. It wasn't appreciated.

I was trained by the government on how to use weapons at Camp Pendleton and certainly would use a weapon in self defence. Nuff said.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

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Originally posted by jason554
I think many of you are forgetting the main point it's CONCEALED carry. When I carry you won know it that's the point. If you do see it I'm guilty of brandishing a weapon. Keep it concealed and there will be no worries.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
next thing you know it will be legal to smoke pot at ukc events as long as you have a prescription ! lol

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1793

This is a sport of competition and sometimes things gets nasty or heated up in the woods. I don't think it would be a good idea with men yelling at each other and one has a gun. The judge scratches someone and he gets real mad and he's carrying a gun. You get to a tree and a guys dog gets chewed up and he's fighting mad and carrying a gun....

Remember first of all it's " SPORT OF COMPETITION" , next we will see basketball , football players carrying guns . To me if UKC lets this stands which some says yes & some says no , you're asking for trouble.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: london ohio
Posts: 609

quote:

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Originally posted by copperheadcreek
show me where it is in print, on the message board doesnt matter. read the rules mr moh there are 3 places that rules go from ..... THE RULE BOOK, THE BACK OF THE SCORE CARD, AND THE ADVISOR........ that is in the rules, it is nowhere stated anywhere in the rules that the message board constitutes a place to rewrite the rules. we could take our phones and download any changes that are put on the message board and keep them with us on the hunts....... oh yeah the new rules states that you can be scratched for USING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and talking (or playing games or texting ) on your cell phones while hunting, you were talking earlier about CIVIL RIGHTS how about someone telling you you cant talk on your cell phone during the hunt or you will bw scratched... i own a business and i will have my phone on me at all times and if it is a work related call i will use my phone.... mike

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charles Pullen
This is a sport of competition and sometimes things gets nasty or heated up in the woods. I don't think it would be a good idea with men yelling at each other and one has a gun. The judge scratches someone and he gets real mad and he's carrying a gun. You get to a tree and a guys dog gets chewed up and he's fighting mad and carrying a gun....

Remember first of all it's " SPORT OF COMPETITION" , next we will see basketball , football players carrying guns . To me if UKC lets this stands which some says yes & some says no , you're asking for trouble.

---

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Sheridan,Ar.
Posts: 121

quote:

---

Originally posted by copperheadcreek
UKCŪ NITE HUNTS
OFFICIAL NITE HUNT HONOR
RULES effective January 1, 2011
* Denotes rule change made for 2011
In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC
Coonhound Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound
Advisor columns in COONHOUND BLOODLINES contain
additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations
of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC
events. All event activities, rules, policy applications and
interpretations are subject to the final decision by UKC in
its sole judgement and discretion.


page 5 of the rule book
Notwithstanding anything herein, UKC reserves the right
to itself and its sole judgment and discretion to change,
at any time, any UKC Rules and/or Policies as written in
this rulebook. Any such changes will be published in
COONHOUND BLOODLINES and updated in the Rule
Sections on the UKC website at www.ukcdogs.com


this next part is on page 63 of the UKC OFFICIAL rule book ( not only in the rulebook but in BOLD LETTERS in its own box

ABSOLUTELY NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES,
GAMBLING, FIREARMS OR ILLEGAL DRUGS WILL
BE ALLOWED ON THE GROUNDS OR WHILE
PARTICIPATING IN THE HUNT OR IN THE
BUILDINGS THE DAY OF A UKC LICENSED EVENT

---

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