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Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

One more thing. Do you think the cadaver dogs, drug dogs,bomb dogs and all the other search dogs come out with the genetics to find all the things they search for. One of the best cross trained dogs I ever watched work was a blue tic. It worked cadaver and live both. One it tracked the other it had to airscent.
I trained a border collie and several other breeds for cadaver and live. You use what there parents gave them in your favor but it is very easy to alter it to your needs too.
Like I said before I didn't mean to offend you but I don't think it is right to tell people to shoot there dog when they are asking how to fix it.

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12-24-2010 01:39 AM

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
One more thing. Do you think the cadaver dogs, drug dogs,bomb dogs and all the other search dogs come out with the genetics to find all the things they search for. One of the best cross trained dogs I ever watched work was a blue tic. It worked cadaver and live both. One it tracked the other it had to airscent.
I trained a border collie and several other breeds for cadaver and live. You use what there parents gave them in your favor but it is very easy to alter it to your needs too.
Like I said before I didn't mean to offend you but I don't think it is right to tell people to shoot there dog when they are asking how to fix it.

Okie i think you are partialy right in that training and patients can help a dog through some problems, but i also see the other side of the coin and i think the move on or cull comments are based on experience from guys who have learned the hard way that lots of dogs just dont make it and alot of time can be wasted on a dog that doesnt have the tools (weve all done it) Compound this fact with the inexperience that most beginners have and short of devine intervention most of these pups wont make a dog that trees coons. Kinda like sending your 10 year old to school with an uneducated teacher. I have always thought the worst thing for a beginning hunter is a pup. Most times the young hunter ends up quitting and the pup ends up worthless.

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12-24-2010 12:35 PM

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Steve Raleigh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 898

Re: Re: Slick trees

quote:
Originally posted by Billme94
I did this a few times over the last week. He has gotten better but now its a bitch to catch him at the tree

a little tickle from the shock collar will fix your problem with him not allowing you to catch him...whether it be at the tree or not.

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12-24-2010 05:51 PM

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Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

Re: Re: Re: Slick trees

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
a little tickle from the shock collar will fix your problem with him not allowing you to catch him...whether it be at the tree or not.

Yep and you don't have to switch him at the tree every time either. Most of the time I just shine the tree, tell them it aint there, walk the direction the track was going before they pulled up short and tell them come on, get in there. I use a voice like I use when I do switch there tail and they get the picture.
If they don't come they get nicked till they do.
BUT BEFORE you nick them for not comeing in the woods they should first know the come command AND that the nick is the punishment for not obeying the command.
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking if the dog knows the command then they are justified in useing elect. for the punishment for not obeying. That is the biggest and most common MISTAKE with the collar. They have to know both.
If you was a little kid and spanish people adoped you. You didn't kow anything but come eat in spanish, they were saying come eat in spanish and all the sudden you startsd getting shocked by the shirt you had on. Would you tie the two together.
Now if it was just a small nick you could barely feel and they kipt repeating the command till you come to eat and as soon as you sat down at the table the nick quet. THEN it wouldn't take to many repititions for you to figure it out.
So yes you can shock your dog out from under a tree if you have to BUT only when it is not obeying a come command or treed on off game.

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12-24-2010 10:26 PM

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Okie i think you are partialy right in that training and patients can help a dog through some problems, but i also see the other side of the coin and i think the move on or cull comments are based on experience from guys who have learned the hard way that lots of dogs just dont make it and alot of time can be wasted on a dog that doesnt have the tools (weve all done it) Compound this fact with the inexperience that most beginners have and short of devine intervention most of these pups wont make a dog that trees coons. Kinda like sending your 10 year old to school with an uneducated teacher. I have always thought the worst thing for a beginning hunter is a pup. Most times the young hunter ends up quitting and the pup ends up worthless.

Don't get me wrong John I have left hounds with lead poison in the woods. I just think some are to fast to tell some of these guys on here to do it. A lot of these guys have a lot of hounds out side there door. A lot of these guys asking questions have there first hound and only have one. They have a lot more time to mess with them. If a kids first hound will tree a coon then they will probubly love it. They arent going to judge a good hound and bad hound in the same light as a man wanting to take it to world and knows what it takes to do so.
Your right though there are two sides to the coin and I am bad about steping on toes to see they get both sides. Sure don't mean to but it happens and for that I am truley sorry.

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12-24-2010 10:45 PM

Justin Smith
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

if you breed for the extreme , you will get it ...

... the first requirement for fixing a problem , is knowing what causes it .

.. whatever you have to train your dog to do ... plan on starting all over again with the pups out of that dog !

... you can beat the jeans off a dog ... but you can't beat the genes out of a dog !

.. if a dog actually understands what you want , and knows near death is the punishment for the crime ... .he'll give it to you !

The key to having good dogs that are naturals and exceptional ? Starting getting as many pups as you can and get rid of everything that doesn't fit that description ... you'll never , ever own a grown dog that isn't exceptional from then on !

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12-24-2010 11:36 PM

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Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
if you breed for the extreme , you will get it ...

!

.. if a dog actually understands what you want , and knows near death is the punishment for the crime ... .he'll give it to you !

If the dog is bred right he will want the same thing you do and there will be no problem.( :

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12-25-2010 05:26 AM

Justin Smith
Banned

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
If the dog is bred right he will want the same thing you do and there will be no problem.( :

You never know what a pup will be ... no strain is that set in type yet and even among a consistant litter there will be different personalities that you may not click with ...

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12-25-2010 06:28 AM

Darren barkman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 578

I had one that slicked alot I did all I could and it helped a little but at the end he wasn't what I called a coon dog. You can do what ever you want but most of them will not be what I call a accurate coonhound. It seems 20 pluse years ago this was not even a discussion wounder why.

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12-25-2010 06:39 AM

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l.lyle
Banned

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

Re: Re: Re: Re: Slick Treeing

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Don't tell my daughter that. She got to lieing when she was about 8-9 years old. I busted her butt every time becouse it is an automatic spankeing to lie at my house. After 3 days of that I never caught her in a lie again. She is now 33. She may start any day though. She has 5 kids and she didn't pass it in her genes.

That is a great testimony! You nor me will give up on our juveniles while we will be kind of dumb not to give up on a lying dog. A dog has my Ok to look at me as his great Salvation, but don't screw up to much or you will find yourself in somebodies deerdog pack. LOL. Ain't it wonderfull that Jesus wasn't as practical as me?

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12-25-2010 08:10 AM