Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
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quote:

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Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
I got a call this morning from the owner of Hi Standard. I guess a bunch of guys were calling and crying to him about what I posted about it, so I will clear the air, so to speak. I do not like the feed. I have nothing against the owner or the guys who choose to feed or sell it. Wade informed me his product is not the same as ultra and some Joy products. So speaking strictly on my own I feel it resembles several of these products, ingredients, size,texture, but that is also strictly my opinion. Look things over and make your own decision.

The guy who says who cares how much stool. I dont think anyone wants six loose piles from 3 cups of feed a day.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mikehurt
I went back and found a post about dogs "overheating" that I had posted on and copied it. Hope it helps.

protien/fat vs carbs
QUOTE]Originally posted by mikehurt
Jonah
I have read dog nutrition publications and tried to put as much study into performance nutrition for dogs and relate it to coonhounds as possible. I am NOT AN EXPERT like some, but this is some of what I have learned.
It is not the protein and fat content that cause the problems for our dogs in the summer and in stressful situations. It is the carbohydrates. In dogs, carbs are for short, quick burst of energy. Not for endurance. Feeds high in carbs and low in fat, are condusive to the build up of large quantities of lactic acid in the muscles, which in turn causes fatigue. The higher the protein and fat level of a feed, the lower the carb level.
Extreme Athlete (32-25) is only about 21 or 22 % carbs. This is good. Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice (23-14) is about 45 or 46% carbs. This is not so good for a dog that you expect performance out of.
Other things go into it, like the digestibility of the protein and fat sources, but animal proteins and fats are way more digestible than plant proteins and fats. Diamond says that the protein digestiblitiy of Extreme Athlete is in the high 80's(I called and got the results of the digestibility study but I can't remember the exact number).
Long story short. We have a dog that we have done a fair amount of winning with. He got hot in the summer, was lethargic, and had a history of skin problems. We switched from the high carb, plant base protein feeds we had been feeding( Diamond green bag, and Black Gold), to Extreme Athlete, and a feed very similar (Native Level 4). The results were unreal. He ran cooler, but more importantly RECOVERED QUICKER. We have never had any more skin problems either. We feed it year around, just a little less in the summer or if he is not getting worked. Right now he is not getting hunted much and we are giving him about 2 3/4 cups, and he is a shade too heavy. It is better to have them a shade thin than fat if you want the best performance.
Anyway, I have taken enough of your time. Hope this helps. If you think I am full of --it, I appologize. If you would like more info, don't be afraid to ask. Mike.

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Mike:

What would be your thoughts on feeding a puppy food that has percentages like the extreme athete? (30/20) or so to adult dogs?? or would you have to see the ingredient list?

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I recently tried a really good ingredient food. IT was the Kirkland chicken and rice. No corn. The dog I fed did great on it from a performance standpoint. From a cleanup standpoint I notices zero difference. Is there a reason for this??

Also I had an old dog that just died. You could feed that dog nearly ANYTHING and its stool was small and tight. How much effect does the actual dog have on the cleanup??

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Ron Ashbaugh
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What about rice makes it better than corn?

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I have mine on self feeders. Is this a bad way to go? Thanks for your help.

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Ron Ashbaugh
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Thank you for the information. Ron

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quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
Digestability.

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One more question. I have a 100 lb. Rodiesion Ridgeback about 7 years old. He can't take out side temps. and stays inside. If I don't feed him twice a day he will vomit stomic acid in the moring soon after he wakes up. If I feed him much even cheap dog food he gets FAT. What is the best diet for him to stay on?

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One more question. I have a 100 lb. Rodiesion Ridgeback about 7 years old. He can't take out side temps. and stays inside. If I don't feed him twice a day he will vomit stomic acid in the moring soon after he wakes up. If I feed him much even cheap dog food he gets FAT. What is the best diet for him to stay on?

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I switched to sportsmix blue bag.Dogs love it.Very little clean-up.I think it is $23.95 for 50#

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CSNOWGREN....
i copied this from another site as an alternate feed what do you think.you seem to know what your talking about


have been working on this for along time. This is what I have learned and what a dog needs. This is what I do and why.

1st-1 cup pinto beans and 1 cup brown rice per dog. (This will give all the amino acids, vitamins, fiber and carbohydrates)

2nd-5-6 grams from whey protein (When dogs are idol, a lot of protein is not good)

3rd-1 TBS of fish oil every day. (This will keep the coat shinning and lubricate the muscle around the heart and other good things like omega three fatty acids)

4th-1/2 TSP of minerals that include, Iron, Folic Acid, B-12 w/Manganese, Cobalt, Copper, and Zinc. (This helps build the red blood cells and allow red blood cells to carry more oxygen to the muscle)

5th-1/4 to 1/2 cup lard (This gives all the calories needed. Beef lard is about 2100 cal. per cup. I use a vegetable fat when hunting)

Now this is when the dog are idol. When I hunt I double everything other then the protein. I boast the protein intake to 40 grams from whey.

I bought a large slow cooker and cook the rice and beans with the powder whey, you will learn how much water it takes to get everything soaked. A cup of beans will expand to about three. Same with the rice. After the beans & rice are cooked, I add all other ingredient and put into a zip lock bag for one serving per dog. I make 20-30 servings and then freeze. Each night I add hot water and serve.

Now this is my opinion only. Feeding dog food is the worst you can feed a dog. It is even worse to feed a couple cups of dog food, and a couple cups of water and turn them loose on a race. If a dog is 50 lbs, you feed it dog food, it drinks 1/4 gal. of water to soak the food and keep its self hydrated. You can add extra and unneeded weight. 4-5 extra pounds on a dog running at top speed is a lot of weight. This formula is wet so so dogs only drink to keep its self hydrated. They pee less therefore they are not flushing the electrolytes. It is easier on the dogs because beans, rice and whey proteins are not a quick burn and over. Dogs are energized during the race, not just at the first.
This is cheap and works well for me.

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ive fed blackgold since they 1st started but the price got so high $27 for 50lb bag of 26/18 i switched to sportsmix blue bag 26/18 dogs like it actually gaining wieght less stools and paying $21 a bag.the place i get it after every 12th bag you buy you also get a free bag.good feed

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csnowgren....the absence of meat has me baffled too.
the best i can tell this guy runs cats/bear with his hounds.
everything is cooked

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Thanks for your input,its much appriciated

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Mike Hurt and CSNOWGREN, thanks for all of the dietary information, I found it all to be very interesting! I will now be found in every dog food dealers store reading ingredients and percentages and feeling like I have a clue what I am reading. Thanks again!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
Once you know what function many of the ingredients perform, and exactly what all of the technical names truly are, its allot of fun trying to dial in on the best feed program for your performance dog. You'll soon realize how many of the common feed names you hear on this board are surviving due to the ignorance of the hunters they "support". Read any dogfeed thread and its almost always about cost, stools, and % of protein and fat. As long as the feed manufacturers have these simple standards to achieve, their life is easy. Quality ingredients cost money, period. Ingredients like feathers, beaks, hooves, etc. are cheap and will elevate the % on the back. This is your "by-products". Add enough beet pulp in there to tighten the stool and you'll fool the majority of coonhunters because they don't know any better. If their dogs put one foot in front of the other they think its a great feed! If they have never truly achieved their genetic potential in terms of endurance and conditioning, they will never know the difference. Can't blame them for what they don't know but some of the feed that is promoted in the magazines and on this board is pretty funny.

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i got a question,,,,,,, if they look good an stay that way while hunting or not ,,, what the hell does it matter what your feeding um

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i feed sportsmix black bag durng the winter but swicth to blue bag durng the summer knock fat off them keep gettg hot long summer nigth and my dog look and hunt great think about eat a bowl myself .
but anyway not all dogs do good on one kinda food thats why they sell more than one kind.

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PRIDE 26-18 $20.00 A BAG 21-17 CHICKEN AND RICE SAME PRICE

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Registered: Nov 2005
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We just Finished the Last Bag of Ground Meat From this Beast

I have found that Using it Ground makes it much Easier to use..

He was 12' Long !!



I have been Feeding about 40-50% Raw Beef with Dry "Kenny -O- Feed" . The Problum is that out of 3 Head of Cattle this Winter their isn't Enough Fat on these Cattle .. Dairy Cows have No Fat at All !!!! Even this Angus only had about 5% Fat if that !!

I'am still working on just how much Raw to Dry Feed I should be using ..


Now their is a Huge Amount of Dairy Cattle that Split their Hind Quaters !!! 2 weeks ago I got a call on a Dariy Cow that Hung Herself in the Feeder Head Stalls ..

Guys Theirs alot of Free Hound Feed out their !! It has taken me about 12 Hours to Grind this size of Beast By Myself..

I do it all Right on the Trailer You Skin Half then De-Bone Half ..

I got 498# off one Half .. Once you have it Boned out on one Side you have to Gut them.. I Pull the Trailer to a Hill on our Property, Then Back Down and Start Gutting .. You just Roll it off the Trailer .. Very Easy !!

Then you have to Flip them over and do it again !!!!





All you'l have left is Bare Bones ... I just Wish I had a Bone Grinder !!!

Maybe I'l try Renting a Tree Chipper Grinder ????? LOL

By the Way His Heart Barely Fit in a 5 Gal Bucket.. His Liver Filed 2-5 gal Buckets

I Did Not Cut the Tripe Out this will be another 50#s of Feed ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by BAWL_TRACK
i got a question,,,,,,, if they look good an stay that way while hunting or not ,,, what the hell does it matter what your feeding um

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quote:

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Originally posted by Majestic Tree H


Guys Theirs alot of Free Hound Feed out their !!

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Now that is a thought. Find you a carcass somewhere, haul it in and dump if for em. Let em feed off it till it's gone like a pack of wolves! If they get hungry enough they will eat it! I think I prefer to pay the price and give mine the ol' bag food.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
Majestic Tree H you are a lucky individual for sure. Make sure to use that tripe next time. Probably the greatest single ingredient feed you could give a dog. As the dogs conditioning level increases, I convert to less dry kibble and more raw feed in the form of red meat, chicken, tripe, jack mac, and small amounts of brown rice, 1/4 cup or so. I still keep the supplement going too. This is for dogs that are nearing their peak and getting hammered every night though.

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Well I should have used the Tripe But it was Freezing out and by the Time to Clean it all up with a hose it would have been a mess ..

His Belly was Full to the Brim !! The Farmer was feeding him very good while he was down !!

We prob. have 30 to 40 Dairy Farms around us plus some beef operations .. The Protein Plant is full with Chicken and Turkey By Product Operations and Really don't have time to mess with Beef
so they Charge Farmers about $75 to come and Pick up Down Cattle ..

Fokes really don't know about the Protein their getting in their Dog Food ...

When the Weather Breaks I take some Photos of what it looks like Before and After Processing !! The Most Chicken"Meat" thats in Feed is off the Feet and Remaining Necks which most all necks go to Cambells to Make Chicken Broth ..!!! And thats only after the Choice Feet have been sent to Asia !!! LOL

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