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Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

It all works better in nature when you don't have the pride and ego of people involved.
If the dog has the natural traits to hunt and agression to kill it's prey, it survives. If it throws those traits it's pups live to breed. If not all that doesn't have the traits die.
Pretty simple in nature. Got to give it to God. He was smart enough to keep things simple.

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11-13-2009 05:26 PM

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wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
It all works better in nature when you don't have the pride and ego of people involved.
If the dog has the natural traits to hunt and agression to kill it's prey, it survives. If it throws those traits it's pups live to breed. If not all that doesn't have the traits die.
Pretty simple in nature. Got to give it to God. He was smart enough to keep things simple.

yep ,then along came the tree hugger to mess with gods work,,
wonder how long they could make it if they had to go into the woods to get food instead of the store..

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11-14-2009 05:38 AM

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Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

Yep or how long they would make it if they didn't have people like us to do there killing for them. It is ok as long as some one kills it and puts it in a bag for them. I wonder what would happen if you put eyes on each package of hamburger. lol

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11-14-2009 07:54 AM

l.lyle
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

Yep, I'm one of them colllege edjucaded fellers in agronomy. That's plants and soil for ya'll that dont know. But if you will take a minute and do a search for PETP instead of PETA, I can dang near garantee ya'll a hoot. PETP is Peaple fo the Ethical Treatment of Plants. It's so toungue in cheak, they took it off the active web about ten years ago. No wonder, it plain hurt some dumbas--es feelings what collects your wife's money to help out neglected animals. Check it out!

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11-14-2009 08:10 AM

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wildbill
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Yep or how long they would make it if they didn't have people like us to do there killing for them. It is ok as long as some one kills it and puts it in a bag for them. I wonder what would happen if you put eyes on each package of hamburger. lol

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11-14-2009 05:06 PM

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

Hell your kids are going to hate you if you eat that now. It looks a lot like Santa Clause. lmao

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11-14-2009 07:05 PM

l.lyle
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

Evertime i get the chance, I refer to PETP (Google Search) . But it seems to fly tween the legs like a rabbit squirts between a pinball wizards head. Then, when everbody gits to laghin you'll turn to your buddy and ask, "what'd he say?

I must learn how to post links for all what want to be "spoon fed".

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11-15-2009 08:07 AM

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

Go to link, right down what the link is. It starts with http: then type it in and hit the space bar. It ought to turn into a link.

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11-15-2009 08:21 AM

wobbles
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: TN
Posts: 18

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
If Sackett Jr had never seen a coon in his life, would it have prevented him from reproducing coondogs? If Niteheat Dixie had never seen a coon would that have prevented her from reproducing coondogs? If neither of them had ever been hunted, could they have still produced Rat Attack?

I understand exactly what sam is saying in this topic. Also, as far as jim's statement he is correct as well. What a dog can produce doesn't have anything to do with his accomplishments, but if you'll take a closer look you can see where sam is coming from. Say ole Dixie had indeed never seen a coon and her mother had never seen a coon and her mothers parents as well. Would you really want a coonhound off a bunch of unproven stock? Dixie was a producer because of the breeders efforts that created her and you best believe the dogs in her pedigree were good proven dogs, this was what enabled her to be a good producing female. Anyone with a pocket full of cash can go out and buy a couple of purebred dogs and breed them together and get a purebred. That's why we see so many peddlers. But to truly be a succesful breeder one must take his dogs to the woods and only breed the best.

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11-15-2009 10:07 AM

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Justin Smith
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:
Originally posted by Marty Vincent
i was looking for a pup last year, saw some in A. C. OUT OF A PROFEN STUD DOG. I CALLED THE MAN TO ASK A FEW ? I ASK HIM WHAT ABOUT THE FEMALE, WHAT WILL SHE DO.HE TOLD ME, I HAVE NEVER HUNTED HER, BECAUSE SHE IS KIND OF CRAZY, SHE DONT EVEN LEAD GOOD, MUCH LESS HUNT, NEEDLESS TO SAY I NEVER CALLED HIM BACK.. THEN I CALLED ANOTHER GUY THAT HAD TWO 6 M/O PUPS, I BOUGHT THEM ON THE PHONE, WHEN I MEET HIM ON THE ROAD THEY LOOKED TO BIG TO BE 6 M/ O, SO I STARTED ASKING ?, THEN HE TOLD ME, THEY WERE BORN IN SEPT. BUT THE PAPERS SAY JAN. TALKING ABOUT DISHONEST, HE SAID HE DID THIS FOR THE SUPER STAKES, I GOT RIED OF THEM BOTH BECAUSE OF IT. THE BOTTOM LINE, IF THERE IS $ IN IT THERE IS SOMEONE TO BE DISHONEST ABOUT IT. I NO THIS IS GOING ON A LOT, WISH UKC COULD STOP PEOPLE LIKE THIS. THANKS, MARTY......

You could have stopped him right there by not buying the dogs and turning him in ... he must have been bigger than you ?

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11-15-2009 02:02 PM

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Justin Smith
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
If Sackett Jr had never seen a coon in his life, would it have prevented him from reproducing coondogs? If Niteheat Dixie had never seen a coon would that have prevented her from reproducing coondogs? If neither of them had ever been hunted, could they have still produced Rat Attack?

Ok , but you are using two of the best reproducers ever that were also coondogs to make a point ... it just shows that hunting your broodstock to find the better ones is actually the better way to go.

Phenotype reveals Genotype ... that's the basic principle behind hunting our dogs to see what they are made of .

There are exceptions .. but those only inspire the guilty , lol.

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11-15-2009 02:05 PM

Justin Smith
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:
Originally posted by Marty Vincent
HE WAS.....................

I hate it when that happens ...

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11-15-2009 02:39 PM

l.lyle
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

Can you believe some body showed up at the Grand American with a litter of 9 week old pups directly out of Jr. and couldn't give them away? They'd look at Jrs bottom side and get gone, never to be seen again. If you can't sell a Christmas pup or one at the Grand American, you got to be the worst salesman in the world, A terrorist, a world reknown lying dog trader or all three of the above. I was neither. But that was a year before Jr. became SOMEBODY. Let's just face it, Coonhunters ain't nuthin but a bunch of ME TOO ers. ME TOO, ME TOO . It takes a salesman to promote a dog, which obviously NOBODY on this bitch and moan thread is. Even if you describe yourself as an INDEPENDANT because you hunt no names, you're still ME TOOing within your tiny little social circle or inbred family lines unless you breed what you want to hunt and hunt what you want. Let a dog Me Too, or honor, a dog and ya'll groupies go crazy. Ya'll make me laugh.

When I said NOBODY Iwasn't talking about you Larry. I prefer to stock the odds in my favor TOO.

Last edited by l.lyle on 11-15-2009 at 05:04 PM

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11-15-2009 04:57 PM

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
You could have stopped him right there by not buying the dogs and turning him in ... he must have been bigger than you ?

Yep country is full of people like that. Iam better than that,I wouldn't do that. What did he do? Let him get away with it and turned around and did it himself when he sold the dogs. Hope he gets beat by one in a big hunt.

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11-15-2009 06:35 PM

Okie Dawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
Can you believe some body showed up at the Grand American with a litter of 9 week old pups directly out of Jr. and couldn't give them away? They'd look at Jrs bottom side and get gone, never to be seen again. If you can't sell a Christmas pup or one at the Grand American, you got to be the worst salesman in the world, A terrorist, a world reknown lying dog trader or all three of the above. I was neither. But that was a year before Jr. became SOMEBODY. Let's just face it, Coonhunters ain't nuthin but a bunch of ME TOO ers. ME TOO, ME TOO . It takes a salesman to promote a dog, which obviously NOBODY on this bitch and moan thread is. Even if you describe yourself as an INDEPENDANT because you hunt no names, you're still ME TOOing within your tiny little social circle or inbred family lines unless you breed what you want to hunt and hunt what you want. Let a dog Me Too, or honor, a dog and ya'll groupies go crazy. Ya'll make me laugh.

When I said NOBODY Iwasn't talking about you Larry. I prefer to stock the odds in my favor TOO.

Tell me why anyone would buy a pup at a big hunt just becouse it was there. If you haven't been in the woods with the sire and dam then all you have to go buy is papers. I would rather go buy papers than a guys word at any hunt unless I new and trusted him. I know a lot of the papers are false advertisement BUT not as bad as the puppy millers. As far as I am concerned breeding an unproven bitch or dog is puppy milling. Can one that is out of 6 generations of dogs that was never put in the woods turn out to be a world champion? YEP but do you have any idea when you breed them what they will be. NO!!!!!
By the way I like a dog that will HONOR if he doesn't have a track of his own. That is not me toing. That is going to were he knows there is a track,getting on it and raceing to the end. That is what a coon dog was bred to do till the comp. changed it. That is what your grand pa's loved. THE RACE BETWEEN EACH OTHERS DOGS ON A GOOD TRACK OR AND OLD ONE. I remember some of those from when I was a kid. The men giveing each other heck when one lost and the other one made the find and strated moveing the track. It was some of my best child hood memories. Just proves we don't want all the same thing.

If a dog has his own track he should be independant and hold his track and tree BUT if he doesn't have one and another dog does. I want mine greedy enough to go try to beat him to his. That is not me too.

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11-15-2009 06:59 PM

skeeterhawk7
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1007

Everyone talks about a breeding a proven stud dog to unproven bitches ! What about the breeding of proven bitches to half you know what studs ?

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11-15-2009 07:39 PM

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Todd Miller
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

quote:
Originally posted by skeeterhawk7
Everyone talks about a breeding a proven stud dog to unproven bitches ! What about the breeding of proven bitches to half you know what studs ?

What ?

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11-15-2009 08:10 PM

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TamarackKennels
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: gerry, ny
Posts: 309

Sorry I am late on responding to the question or statement of four is too many..
one is a 12 year old Bluetick female that is our pup trainer/ the other is a 5 year old english male that I just pleasure hunt.
the third is a 1 year old plott female just starting. and the last is 6 month old english female that will be started in March or April.
I start my pups later in like 8 or 9 months....

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11-15-2009 11:29 PM

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TamarackKennels
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Location: gerry, ny
Posts: 309

about breeding, here is my opinion,
JMO
Breeding and Genetics is all a Chance.. Never a guarantee.

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11-15-2009 11:32 PM

wayne f
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 2589

lori

your right on breeding being a chance. i will take my chances on previous crosses that have produced to me it' bs that papers don't mean anything, breeding coondog to coondog will work sometimes but then where do you go for your next one i have seen many cross bred dogs that were teriffic top of the line hounds but couldn't reproduce and the reason for that is cross breeding opens up the gene pool wide open producing pups that are all over the place as far as set trates. to me linebreeding seems the way to go as long as you start with the right animals and cull ruthlessly and as you go on culling becomes very small and like pups become more and more alike while doing this you best belooking for a compatible outcross as the time will come when they are to close where size deminishes color washes out in breeding english dogs redticks are preferred by most but you can't be color blind either as eventualy you need a blue dog in the mix i look at a lot of good colored redticks and research the pedagree and you will see blues and tri's inthe background i own one of those washed out looking redticks but he is a hell of a hound but he has a washed out color thati don't like atall will probably never use him in my line . i like the total package including size and color i like a houndy looking houd with mouth tracking ability and treeing ability

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11-16-2009 04:52 AM

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Kyle W. Graf
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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Park Falls, WI.
Posts: 487

Which world champion is everyone refering to that was out of unhunted dogs?

Why do people buy young dogs instead of pups? Someone raises a pup and it gets to be ten months old. They put it on a caged coon and it does nothing or shows very little intensity so they put it up for sale. ( young dog, don't have time, needs hunting.) Then they buy another pup hoping to get a better one. Why wouldn't you buy a pup and have a better chance at getting a good one?

Nite hunters want their dog to track and tree coon. Whoever started the rumor that nite hunters want their dog to just streak through the woods doesn't understand the scoring system.
Kyle

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11-16-2009 03:10 PM

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Okie Dawg
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

If your dog hunts from the tail gate with it's head down trying to find a workable track you will never sell it to some one winning in the nite hunts. They want them to run with there head up and not stop and work a TRAIL they can't smell with there head up. There is a big differance between a track dog and a trail dog. A track dog isn't going to win much in comp. Makes GREAT pleasure hunting dogs though. I like both. Just have to know witch is good for witch.

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11-16-2009 03:29 PM

wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by Kyle W. Graf

#1.Why do people buy young dogs instead of pups?

#2.Nite hunters want their dog to track and tree coon.
Whoever started the rumor that nite hunters want their dog to just streak through the woods doesn't understand the scoring system.
Kyle [/B]

answer #1....why people buy young dogs over pups is

they can buy them for the same price as a pup and someone else has eat the cost of raising them to starting age
where a halfazz trainer can work the snot out of them and get them started and have a dog at a lot less cost and/or sell for a larger profit if so disired.....

answer #2..scoring system,,,lol...

first dog treed before the other dogs open ,
lock the other dogs out and gets bigger score...

1st greyhound accross the finish line is the winner...

can it be explained any better than this..???

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11-16-2009 04:02 PM

Phantom
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Here is a question for all you guys and gals that say unproven dogs or bitches should not be bred.How will they get proven as a reproducer if no one ever takes a shot or gamble (whatever you want to call it) and breeds them to see just what they will or will not produce?

Last edited by Phantom on 11-16-2009 at 04:05 PM

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11-16-2009 04:03 PM

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wildbill
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by Phantom
Here is a question for all you guys and gals that say unproven dogs or bitches should not be bred.How will they get proven as a reproducer if no ever takes a shot or gamble (whatever you want to call it) and breeds them to see just what they will or will not produce?

got to start somewhere...

i wonder how many pups t.ball put down that didnt make the grade at his dog farms he used to have or may still have till he found which cross's worked.....

only one way to tell if a stud clicks on any certain bloodlines,,right,,lol

bad part some cant afford or wont cull the rejects due to the money involved in raising pups to old enough to accurelly judgeing them as coondogs = excess idits running around the dog traders/pounds.......

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11-16-2009 04:13 PM

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