Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Navarre, Ohio
Posts: 647

I feel the master of hound made the right call.
The dog that struck in, must not of been very convincing. Lol
Sounds like the dogs were pretty close in score to each other.
So If your dog produced that rabbit you would have won .
Thats the way to win , not try and get another dog scratched.
Thats just the way the raindeer games go, good luck next time.

P.S what was both dogs final score?

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 780

I ALWAYS NEW THAT THE VOTE WAS A MAJORITY THING AFTER TRACK WAS DOWN TO HANDEL OR NOT WHEN I JUDGE I ASK WHATS CAST DEC??? BUT WHEN HOUNDS ARE HANDELED AND MARKS ARE MADE HOUNDS ARE CASTED BACK OUT STARTS CLEAN SLATE FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE.
OK GET READY HEERS ANOTHER ONE. 4 HOUND CAST 1 HOUND STRUCK ANOTHER HOUND 2-BARKS DEEP, OTHER 2 ARE LOCKED ON JAW, HOUND STRUCK GOES NO WHERE EARNS A MINUS EVERYBUDDY AGREES TO LEAVE HOUNDS ON GROUND THE HOUND THAT IS 2 BARKS DEEP GOINA HAVE TO STRIKE ON NEXT BARK? GUYS AND GALS MYSELF I FEEL THAT HANDELIN OF THE HOUNDS IS A GOOD THING KEEPS ALL THIS NITPICKIN DOWN I TO HAVE SEEN ALOT OF DOGS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED GET SAVED BY HANDELERS AND JUDGES IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO MAJORITY RULES
WHATS THE FIRST THING THAT MASTER OF HOUNDS ASK WHEN THERE IS A QUESTION ON CARD DID YOU ALL VOTE ON IT?

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 119

no matter how far apart in time or in distance, if a dog barks, it counts towards the 3 bark rule. the only way to get the 3 barks reset to say is that the dogs must be called to move or handled. if they remain freecasted then any and all barks count towards the 3. you will see this in the next rule book. this is really going to be tough in my opinion to keep up with. still yet i enjoy the running and i have met a lot of people over the 9 yrs ive been running. most of them are really great to run with and i thank them for this. then there are a few who make it tough. i like drawing them also but make them know the rules and stand by them it will work out in the end. maybe not at this hunt but i believe what goes around will come around.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1026

So if a dog barks one time and then turns around goes 3oo yards in the other direction and barks two more times you have to strike them? Kinda crazy. If you're hunting thick cover there could be a briar bark or two.

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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 415

if there is no check area in hunting beagle, how could you not count the 3 barks? I mean if a dog can get a check 300 yards from where he last barked, then why not make those 3 barks, no matter where they are, count towards that dogs 3 barks? Just my opinion?

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1026

Cmon guys! This is where common sense has to take place. If you see a dog bark once and then it leaves that general area and starts hunting somewhere else, the barks should start over.

It's simple guys. Do your best to let the best dog win. To many people try to use rules to beat other dogs. The dogs are the ones competing, not the handlers. It shouldn't be about the handlers, it's about the dogs.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 22

Right on Mapes. Too many people can't take it if they lose so they interperet rules to favor there own dogs.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Nettie, WV
Posts: 348

i agree with you jimbo.....let the best dog win...marcus

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 284

You're right. This is one of those areas that there is no definitive rule. A comma followed by a few more words could clarify this rule easily. But, it's not there so I agree with the above three gentlemen, you have to use common sense.

I can't see requiring a dog to be struck in if it barks once or twice, and then 10 minutes later barks again (enough to add to three total barks) in an area thats obviously not the same trail it wasn't striking on before. This, in my opinion, wouldn't be following the rules but obviously stretching and bending them.

I'm with Mapes, Jimbo, and Boyce!

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Buckeye State
Posts: 431

Twosocks, I get what your saying, I don't agree with the whole check area bs period. I tell you guys, if this 3 bark thing goes in affect, watch out, you will see some pissed off people. I for one, like tight mouthed dogs, thats what I run, I very seldom take a minus for no produce, but still, like Jeremy said earlier, briars in the ears, or maybe a squeak or one bark on a cold track happens all the time. If this is the case, then, the people heading this stuff up should really have a reality check on what the heck were doing out here. This is starting to get funny. Ukc needs to clean up and clarify a few of these rules, they keep saying oh, they don't happen much, whatever, cause a hand full of them do. Everyone needs to speak up . It sometimes helps.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
Posts: 995

Well that Cinches it for ME I Wont be attending ANY more Hunting beagle trials.............
WHY punish a Big nosed Dog???? I have one that will pop off once or twice here and there So with this Scenario he Would minus out Faster than usual!!!! So Why Waste my Money?
one of these Days maybe UKC will get this program BACK together.. I say BACK because it used to be a good FUN format 8 years or more ago, until Folks started using the Grey areas of the rules to their advantage Stacking hunts Ect!!!
heck I can remember when you looked at the back of the card Scored it and went on to the next!!!
wasnt any 10 min Discussions on What this or that person THOUGHT!!!! But then again I can remember When they used to scratch Rough Runners too!!!!!!

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Buckeye State
Posts: 431

TJ, I agree, When was the last time a dog was scratched for rough running, skirting, babling, back tracking, Been a while, heck I haven't seen some them ever, maybe a warning here and there,, But, in the PP I have many times so far. The performance pack rules aren't perfect, but they do reward the dogs more, and more concentration from the judges is towards track work, and removing the dogs that don't apply.

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Last edited by LARRY DEAN on 10-16-2009 at 01:48 AM

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
Posts: 995

quote:

---

The performance pack rules aren't perfect, but they do reward the dogs more, and more concentration from the judges is towards track work, and removing the dogs that don't apply.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Coshocton,Ohio
Posts: 2613

Really all that has to be done, is get your membership of the club and have your own rules seminar. Take the time and go over the rules and discuss it. Once everyone is on the same note as the rule book, there should be know gray areas. Some times you might have to use some common sense, but what is the majority of the cast vote for. If you don't like it, put a ?? on it. No ??, the Master Of Hounds doesn't have to even hear it. Read the rules as they are written, if you don't like them send in your changes.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: ne ind
Posts: 68

i was on a cast back in aug that jed was observing. my dog barked 2 times then moved about 100 yards, so i asked the judge how far she had to move or how much time had to elapse before her bark count would start over. He said Not until we handle the dogs, and I said that was crazy. Jed said that he agreed with me, and in January the wording in the rules would be changed. Didn't really go into detail as to how the wording would be changed, but made it sound like there would be something other than handling the dogs, that would restart the dog's bark count.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 119

all of you who dont believe me you will see. if you do not call or handle dogs the 3 barks is 3 barks no matter the time or disrtance. i for one dont agree with it but i was told that thats the way coonhounds do it. coons and rabbits dont run or act the same at all. but the wording is being changed to what im telling ya. cold nosed dogs dont have a chance and slick judges will abuse it. me, if the track is done whether struck or not when you go 300 yards and it still counts? be no split tracks or quitting a track if distance is no factor. if im judging you can bet im calling and moving or handling dogs.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Calhoun KY
Posts: 995

I Always thought that HB Format ment HUNTING BEAGLE Format..
How many Actually hunt thier Dogs like this???
if So that explains a lot!!!!
Maybe they need to rename it NON HUNTING BEAGLE!!!!!

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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: West Lafayette, Ohio
Posts: 415

I am not saying that making a dog strike on the third bark, whether it is in the same place or not is a good idea. I am just saying that the "no check area" and the "no bark area" are kind of the same thing. If there was a check area, there should be a bark area." I am in no way saying that a dog hitting a track and barking two times, and then moving 300 yds. and barking another two times is the same track. It obviously is not.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NORTH CENTRAL WV
Posts: 571

I wouldnt worry about the distance but the time between barks if 5 or 10 minutes have gone by between barks if I am judgeing I wouldnt hold a guy to the 3 barks thats crazy

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