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all-state58
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: St.Marys,WV
Posts: 10

Fighting

Yeah warning isn't in the book but i've seen a couple times the judge tell the guy if they see anything else there scratched. I guess i could have worded it better

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03-25-2009 04:12 AM

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wayne f
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 2589

knowing the rules is only half of it you also have to know how to apply it
how can you scratch a dog thats still on the leash or in the box beside aggression you need interferance if the dogs are in the box what are they interfering with if there on the leash and not caste where is the interferance

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03-25-2009 04:26 AM

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joseph mcdonald
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

You also still need a competent judge or a majority cast vote. Thats why I dont care how it reads, if the judge dont do nothin and you aint got a majority cast vote, all kinds of crap can go down. Rules, right there on back of card, and I'll be dammed if a question pops up there are always gray areas, next thing you know somebodys makin somethin up, and then your voting on it.

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03-25-2009 04:33 AM

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Rapidan River K
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Culpeper, Virginia
Posts: 3

HOW TO JUDGE

I myself am a MOH , I was the attending MOH at b/t days two years ago. I gave a small speech on ''AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR & INTERFERNCE, Allen(UKC) told that was perfect . So here we go:
1. Dog fight means dog fight (CONTACT WAS MADE) scratch the AGGRESSOR if known or if not scratch dogs involved.
2. Interfernce AND aggressive behavior, GOT TO HAVE BOTH !
EXAMPLES: DOG GROWLS OR FACE BARKS and if dog tolerates it then NO SCRATCH why cause no interference was
made, but say if he blows at another dog and he leaves the
tree then he will be sratched. GROWLING in the box if no
contact then no scratch. Dog bites another dog on a leash
or at the club he is SCRATCHED.
THE MOH CAN SCRATCH A DOG AT THE CLUB AND THE JUDGE CAN DO THE SAME ONCE HE RECIEVES THE CARD.

CHARLES PULLEN 540-423-1190

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03-25-2009 07:36 AM

ringtail
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2760

vote???????

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
You also still need a competent judge or a majority cast vote.

on what? scratch?????? u don't have a vote on scratching..... that is the judges call and if u don't like it, ? it and take it back to MOH........

if u want to vote, u can vote on this: plus, minus circle (and that's it)....... if u don't get majority it is circled.... if u don't it, ? it and take it back to MOH...

BIG problem in the hunts, people voting on stuff they they have no business voting on..... if u have a "competent judge" he will tell u it is not a voting situation and move on......

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03-26-2009 07:14 AM

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Ritchie
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: ligonier,IN
Posts: 13

One time my friend was hunting in a hunt and dog fight broke loose. He scratches them both but, if he had scratched the other dog that was growling of the leash he would of been fine and won the hunt. Don't know why people bring junk like that to the hunts. I'll scratch em if they show any illness at all.

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03-26-2009 12:21 PM

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wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

Re: Growling or Fighting...

quote:
Originally posted by John247
There is a difference between growling and fighting...If a fight breaks out in the box you are subject to being scratched. Usually the handlers break it up and agree no harm no foul, as they know both will be SFF if something is made of it.... Personally I NEVER put my dog in a box with another dog, especially two males, but females can be bad too. You are asking for trouble by putting two dogs in the same side. The dogs are keyed up and sometimes one growl will start it...If you have to cut down to one vehicle when you get to the hunting area, ride on the back and hold your dog....

wow ,maybe this is why people dont like to put their dogs in my dog hauling box ...

i have a rule...
males in one side and females in the other....
any noise and i insert a #12 steel toe boot to calm the noise...

if you cant trust them to be hauled together ,,why do you think they will hunt together any better?????

my saying is stop it before it starts...

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03-26-2009 01:15 PM

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all-state58
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: St.Marys,WV
Posts: 10

dog

I like your take on things wild bill

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03-26-2009 05:36 PM

Cody Carroll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, VA
Posts: 669

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
I disagree... they are scratchable offences if they interfere with a dogs ability to tree.

but where is the interference? i have seen dogs growl gettin out of the box= no interference. i have seen dogs facebark other dogs but the other dogs kept on treein= no interference

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03-26-2009 08:32 PM

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Cody Carroll
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, VA
Posts: 669

quote:
Originally posted by Ritchie
I'll scratch em if they show any illness at all.

bet you wont without interference

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03-26-2009 08:38 PM

Ritchie
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: ligonier,IN
Posts: 13

Cody, If dog is Ill and growling around he has already showed aggressive behavior and is intimidating other dog's so there is your iterference. So there for dog is scratched and that is the way to keep the junk out of the hunts. Sorry but thats how I feel. To many good young hounds out there to be getting ruined by rough junk.

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03-27-2009 03:26 AM

Cody Carroll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, VA
Posts: 669

say a gog is growling on the lead.... no interference... how can the dog be scratched. or what if a male smells a female an she growls?

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03-27-2009 03:32 AM

joseph mcdonald
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Ringtail, I was refering to all the casts I've been on when the "judge" is hunting his dog on the cast. The MoH appoints him judge, then you get to the woods and he says he's just the "scorekeeper", we'll all vote on any questions. Let me guess, this has never happened to you? Is it right? I dont know, Dont care. Was just making a point. So to reiterate , You have to have either a compentent judge or a majority cast vote.

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03-27-2009 03:41 AM

Steve Raleigh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 898

quote:
Originally posted by Ritchie
Cody, If dog is Ill and growling around he has already showed aggressive behavior and is intimidating other dog's so there is your iterference. So there for dog is scratched and that is the way to keep the junk out of the hunts. Sorry but thats how I feel. To many good young hounds out there to be getting ruined by rough junk.

Ritchie,
Your moral views on the subject may be correct, but with this view of the situations you are not following UKC's policy/rules correctly....whether you choose to follow them is your choice, but if me and you were on a cast I can say with 100% confidence that you will not be scratching me over that.

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03-27-2009 10:13 PM

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wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

Re: dog

quote:
Originally posted by all-state58
I like your take on things wild bill

thanks,,i dont put up with the bull in the box or the woods,,

any jockying on the tree is the same thing mr. cody...

agressive action is the same in the box or the tree..

if you have to hunt that type of dog ,then dont bring it around here
as if it comes into a tree where my dogs are and starts crap it will be treated just like my dogs get treated.....

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03-28-2009 07:14 AM

Cody Carroll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, VA
Posts: 669

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
Ritchie,
Your moral views on the subject may be correct, but with this view of the situations you are not following UKC's policy/rules correctly....whether you choose to follow them is your choice, but if me and you were on a cast I can say with 100% confidence that you will not be scratching me over that.

amen!!!

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03-29-2009 08:38 AM

Cody Carroll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, VA
Posts: 669

Re: Re: dog

quote:
Originally posted by wildbill
thanks,,i dont put up with the bull in the box or the woods,,

any jockying on the tree is the same thing mr. cody...

agressive action is the same in the box or the tree..

if you have to hunt that type of dog ,then dont bring it around here
as if it comes into a tree where my dogs are and starts crap it will be treated just like my dogs get treated.....

just so you know.... my dog wont start anything. but she aint goin nowhere either. an i had an old man tell me the saying in my signature once

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03-29-2009 08:42 AM

bandithunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
Posts: 846

I'm with you Wildbill on this one, except I score with a rifle instead of a boot. I guess that's why I don't have any 'jockeying' for position when I hunt. Collar goes home, dog don't. It's pretty easy to tell who has a growly dog.

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03-29-2009 12:24 PM

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wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

Re: Re: Re: dog

quote:
Originally posted by Cody Carroll
just so you know.... my dog wont start anything. but she aint goin nowhere either. an i had an old man tell me the saying in my signature once

i hope you didnt beleave what he said,,
i had a guy tell me he was going to whip my butt once also,,
we jockyed for position ,he beat on me with a pingpong paddle,
parilized my right arm at the right elbow down..,dislocated my left knee..
i relocated my knee with his chest and beat him with my dead right arm.
he went to the hospital and never came back to school for a week,his face was still swelled then.
i carried the family pack of aspirns around with me for awhile ,but i didnt miss any school ..

the teacher asked us what the problem was,i told him just a disagreement ,he throught he could whip me and i didnt think he could ,
but he grabed ahold of the wrong dog and we found out..

we shook hands later and he desided not to go around growling at dogs he didnt know anymore...

i treat my dogs the same way,,one real nice male i had made a mistake of turning and growling at me one time after getting the boot,,that earned him a .38 hollowpoint between the eyes..

i have no problem with a dog protecting itself,but the coondogs are in the woods to growl/bark at coons, not each other

i have no tolerence for growling at anything but a coon and if more people did ,
they wouldn't have to breed for dogs that hunt by themselves,
its more fun to hunt a pack of dogs than it is to hunt for 4 different dogs treed in 4 different woods...

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03-30-2009 03:59 AM

wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by bandithunter
I'm with you Wildbill on this one, except I score with a rifle instead of a boot. I guess that's why I don't have any 'jockeying' for position when I hunt. Collar goes home, dog don't. It's pretty easy to tell who has a growly dog.

i'll give the dog the benifit of dout if i dont see which one started it,both get the boot..
if i catch the one starting it,it will get educated good,,then the problem terminated after that...

jockying for position is what gives night hunt dogs a bad name..

i look at all ads in the mags with dogs haveing night hunt titles
and wonder how many got them titles by the handler hollaring "jockying for position " to stop a scratch??

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03-30-2009 04:16 AM

wayne f
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 2589

wild bill you kick my hound and very possible the last thing you ever kick. i don't and won't own a mean or ill dog ,however no one is going to ever manhandle any dog i own

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03-30-2009 05:47 PM

VICKY B
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Millersburg,Ohio
Posts: 1976

Re: Fighting Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by trackpushingBT
CAN DOGS FIGHTING ON CHAIN BE SCRATCHED PRIER TO BEING CASTED WHEN THE AGRESIVE DOG IS KNOWN? IF NOT HOW IS THAT TO BE HANDLED?

I think handlers ought to be scratched for being dumb, to let them get that close, what were they thinking? Come on..

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03-30-2009 06:36 PM

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wildbill
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:
Originally posted by wayne f
wild bill you kick my hound and very possible the last thing you ever kick. i don't and won't own a mean or ill dog ,however no one is going to ever manhandle any dog i own

well sir ,,
if you arent 2 face about what you just said,you have no problem if you dont hunt mean or growling dogs,,

but if your dog grabs ahold of my dog IT WILL GET BOOTED SAME AS MINE and
it wont be the last dog i boot for fighting unless you plan to shoot me or the mean dogs before i BOOT them..because if you grab ahold of me ,you better hang on for the ride of your life.....

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03-30-2009 08:32 PM

wildbill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

Re: Re: Fighting Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by VICKY B
I think handlers ought to be scratched for being dumb, to let them get that close, what were they thinking? Come on..

what makes a difference weither they are on a chain,in box or not..

when they are treeing ,they will be bumping shoulders unless they are treeing on a redwood..........

if they growl on chain why wouldnt they in the woods??

i forgot,some call it jockying in the woods,no matter what you call it ,on or off the chain ,growling is growling....

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03-30-2009 08:47 PM