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quote:

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Originally posted by longshot
Bryan , it is possible I could be wrong , I have been before

I really dont think I am wrong about it... If I was you I would call the Mo department of conservation tommorrow and tell them about it and I think they will tell you , there is no written permission law in Mo. I would be curious to know what they say.. Some of these conservation officers have little respect of coonhunters and they should have their feet put to the fire... Let me know if you find out anything....

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Last edited by smokin-1-mo on 12-04-2008 at 03:21 AM

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Kinda long but to the point.
Again it doesn't say written permission. Its just going to maybe save you a fine later and jail!

Anyone who hunts, fishes or uses outdoor recreation on private property should be aware of Missouri's Trespass laws
Monday, September 01, 2008
Trespass in the first degree.

569.140. 1. A person commits the crime of trespass in the first degree if he knowingly enters unlawfully or knowingly remains unlawfully in a building or inhabitable structure or upon real property.

2. A person does not commit the crime of trespass in the first degree by entering or remaining upon real property unless the real property is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders or as to which notice against trespass is given by:

(1) Actual communication to the actor; or

(2) Posting in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders.

3. Trespass in the first degree is a Class B misdemeanor.

Trespass in the First Degree is a Class B misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of six months in the county jail and a $500 fine.

Trespass in the second degree.

569.150. 1. A person commits the offense of trespass in the second degree if he enters unlawfully upon real property of another. This is an offense of absolute liability.

2. Trespass in the second degree is an infraction (as opposed to a misdemeanor), punishable by a maximum fine of $200.

CAUTION: Do not rely upon this information for legal advice. See an attorney for legal counseling tailored to your specific situation and needs.

During its 1993 legislative session, the Missouri legislature enacted a new statute pertaining to trespassing. The new law, the Purple Paint Statute (RSMO 569.145), provides yet another way for Missouri landowners to protect their property from trespassers. Landowners can still use "No Trespassing" signs, however the Purple Paint Statute allows landowners to mark trees or posts with purple paint as a warning to would-be trespassers. Just like a "No Trespassing" sign or actual communication to individuals that no trespassing is allowed, the purple paint marks are considered to be adequate notice to the public that no trespassing is allowed on the property.

Missouri's law is similar to one that has been used in Arkansas since 1989. These statutes were enacted to provide landowners with an economical and easy way to keep out unwanted trespassers. The law does not require that property marked with the purple paint also be fenced, thus it is an economical alternative for landowners who do not otherwise need to fence their property. Additionally, it prevents a problem encountered when using "No Trespassing" signs -- purple paint marks can't be taken down, destroyed, or stolen!

Because the Purple Paint Statute is new, many people across the state are not yet aware that the statute exists. Regardless, the statute imputes notice to would-be trespassers. All land marked with purple paint in the manner proscribed by the statute is considered to be adequate notice to the public. It fulfills the same function as a "No Trespassing" sign, a fence, or telling someone not to come onto your property.

Under Missouri's law:

Any owner or lessee of real property can post property with the purple paint marks.

Purple paint marks must be placed on either trees or posts (the statute does not specifically allow the option of placing paint marks on buildings).

Vertical paint lines must be at least 8 inches long (the statute does not mention a maximum length).

The bottom edge of each paint mark must be between 3 feet and 5 feet off the ground.

Paint marks must be readily visible to any person approaching the property.

Purple paint marks cannot be more than 100 ft. apart.

The statute provides that any person trespassing onto property marked by purple paint can be found guilty of a first-degree trespassing charge. Any unauthorized entry onto property marked with the purple paint marks is considered a trespass. First-degree trespassing is a Class B Misdemeanor, with potential punishment of a maximum $500 fine and/or a maximum of 6 months in jail.

Other violations which would subject a trespasser to first-degree trespass are: (1) entering a property posted with "No Trespassing" signs; (2) refusing to leave property once told to do so; and (3) coming onto land fenced against intruders.

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Trespassing Dogs

Landowners or tenants do NOT have a right to shoot a dog just for trespassing or chasing wildlife
Alternative: Look at the duty of "adequate control" required under Missouri’s Animal Neglect/Abuse statute (578.009 and .012)
MO Statute 273: Dogs Injuring Livestock

IF dog is "killing, maiming, or chasing sheep or other domestic animals, then:
Can kill the dog except when it is on its home place
Can collect $1/day of delay after notice to dog owner/keeper to destroy the dog
Can collect actual damages
Chapter 273 covers sheep, chickens, horses, cattle, swine, goats, and other livestock
Chapter 273 does NOT apply to dogs, cats, and other household pets

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Behind the Code
When hunting dogs and landowners collide.

by Tom Cwynar

Missouri’s Wildlife Code allows the use of dogs during prescribed open seasons to take or pursue wildlife, except for beaver, deer, mink, muskrats, river otters and turkeys. All dogs used for hunting, except for waterfowl and game bird hunting, have to be equipped with a collar that includes the full name and address or complete telephone number of the owner. Additional regulations and restrictions for hunting with dogs, including special restrictions in certain counties, can be found on page 81 and on page 90 of the Wildlife Code.

Dogs on private property are not considered to be trespassing. However, state statutes prohibit any person, including hunters, from entering private property without permission, even if they are just trying to retrieve their dogs.

Chapter 273 of the Missouri Revised Statutes allows landowners to pursue and kill dogs that are chasing or injuring livestock. It also allows for recovery of damages from the owner of the dog. Landowners, however, cannot shoot dogs simply for being on their property. Doing so can result in criminal charges.

When dealing with confrontations between people who use dogs for hunting and people who don’t want dogs on their property, a conservation agent’s only option is to impartially apply state statutes and the Wildlife Code, while encouraging all parties involved to show mutual respect and consideration.

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quote:

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Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
MARK... BRYAN IS CORRECT....WE ARE SUPPOSE TO HAVE WRITEN PERMISSION IN MISSOURI........MY LOCAL AGENT BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION I HAD NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE TILL THEN, HE SAID HE WAS NOT GOING TO PUSH IT UNLESS THINGS GOT OUT OF HAND,HE TOLD ME THIS BACK IN THE SPRING........I ALWAYS THOUGHT WE HAD THE RIGHT TO RETRIEVE BUT WE DONT HAVE THAT EITHER....

I WILL TELL YOU ONE PLACE YOU DONT WANT TO HUNT THAT IS MINGO WILDLIFE REFUGE AT 2 IN THE MORNIG WHEN YOU THINK EVERYONE IS A SLEEP ......ITS A 500.00 FINE THEY TAKE YOUR LIGHTS TRACKER AND ANYTHING ELSE THEY WANT......LOL I FOUND OUT THIS THE HARD WAY....

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1st off ,,, there is no written permission law in Missouri and if your Local agent is telling that , then he needs to brush up on his job.. It is true that there is no right to retrieve your dogs without permission. If the landowner will not allow it , then you call the sherrif and he will allow you to get them..

The purple paint law is simply another way of posting property and is the same as any sign , which by the way , private property doesnt even have to be posted at all in Mo and you can still be ticketed for trespass if the landowner request it , which is a horses A$$ thing to do , but that is another story. Signs or No signs really mean nothing , you can be ticketed either way if they want to do it...

Now , I am going to give my opinion on some things and will probably pi$$ some folks off , but here goes anyway.

1. The thing that ticks me off is Conservation officers are not elected officials and some of them ( not all ) think they are Gods gift to mankind and can do or say whatever they want. The reason I like the local sherrif much better is becasue I can vote them out if I dont like it. The only recourse you have against a game warden is through your state congress.. In my opinion , they should be better at remembering , just who is paying their wages ( hunters ) and if they are confiscating guns , lights or other things , they should be compared to the Nazi dictators !!!

Coonhunting is a long standing tradition in my area and I ain't gonna put up with this Bullshi without a fight. I'm an easy going induvidual , but dont mess with my hunting dogs. I pay taxes and buy a licence to hunt and I dont expect to be hassled by my local agent and especially on state owned land that my taxes paid for , unless you are doing something stupid like poaching....

I support fully the game departments , but if they are hassling hunters over pidly things , then the state legislature would be hearing from me. Perhaps their power has gotten a little to far reaching and needs to be put in check..

A nieghbor of mine here got a ticket last week on his own land for shooting a deer because it was to near a feeder on his own land.. That is a load of crap too....

Another topic that grates on me is the disparity in nonresident licence fee's.. You Iowa boys can come here and hunt for a fraction of what it cost me to go to Iowa... I'm not complaining that you come here and hunt , but it ticks me off to have to pay a rediculous fee to hunt in your state if I so desire... BUT THAT IS A WHOLE NOTHER STORY AND TOPIC....

Whew , I feel better after airing all that laundry... Now fire away on me... lol

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Mark the out of State fees for Iowa are way to high I agree!
Also I would say some officers use there so called authority too much too!
Be so nice if every state had the right to retrive law. We are not hurting anything just getting our dogs!

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I have been searching all nite on this. All I see is where you do have to have permission to retrieve the hounds. I do believe the officer was wanting to make sure there is written permission only if there is any question to the land owner.

I have some emails to conservation officers on the strict laws and such. I will post answers when I receive them, if I do.

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Mark......since the Sheriff of the county you hunt in is my brother in law....i asked him what you do when your dogs are on posted land.He said its best to tell the land owner first.Then if they tell you not to step foot on thier land you call the conservation dept. The conservation agent can and will walk you in to get your dogs,if a dispute breaks out between you and the land owner then the local law can do something.If the conservation agent wont help you then you beg the land owner for mercy and call the conservation office to "try" to get results.I find it easier to keep the conservation agents and the local sheriffs number on my cell phone,when you tell the land owner that YOU will make the call they usually see it your way....its saved me before....and i do the best i can to kiss the land owners butt.I been known to have a couple of spots that no one else can hunt....try passing out a couple gift cards to Applebee's or a good "home-made" pie......it works!!!

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Jerry another great reply. I like the Apple Pie idea!

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I have bought a many a apple pie over the years and it is a great thing for hunters to do , but it wont work with the full tilt horses A$$ city slicker that hates all hunters..

I was out hunting and got run off by one of these city slickers a few years ago. He was fairly nice about it. He just said he didnt want anybody on his 300 acres for ANY reason....

I was very nice too , BUT I told him that I delivered his mail and mail sometimes has a way of getting lost... The guy that was hunting with me told him that he worked for the electic co-op and they might not be able to get his power back on to quick in the next ice storm...

I told him that my uncle was the rural fire chief and if he ever had a fire , my uncle might be busy and cant get here real fast..

I told him that my cousin was the road commissioner and he might not be able to spend any money next year on his road..

Finally , I told the city slicker that I would be sure and tell everyone in the community about what kind of new neighbor he wanted to be....

HE SUDDENLY CHANGE HIS MIND AND DECIDED HUNTING WASN'T SO BAD AFTER ALL....

Bottom line is if people around here want to be that kind of neighbor , then I will do my best to help them get the word out in the community just what a A$$hole they really are..

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Man, you guys in south Missouri play dirty! I like it!

When I got wrote up, I was in a semi-suburban county near Kansas City. It was a sheriff's deputy and the funny thing is the sheriff is about a 4th cousin of mine. I never did play that card, maybe I should have.

Funny thing is there was another night, in the same county, where my wife got a call late at night, asking her if she knew our pickup was parked out on a rural road. She said, yes, her husband was out coonhunting. The deputy told her the vehicle needed to be moved. I was parked on a wide road, with no shoulder. Plenty of room to get around and good visibility for 2-300 yards either direction.

The problem I have is that so many small acreage owners are moving in, and moving in and out I couldn't possibly keep track or be able to afford apple pies or whatever, to keep them happy.

I know several older guys that used to coonhunt that have quit, mainly due to lack of hunting ground and the city growing out to where they live. I think at some point the hassle gets to be too much. Either quit or move.

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It does get frustrating wondering what to do when your dog goes the wrong direction....i had a guy run me off the land he'd gave me permission to hunt 20 years ago,and i hunted it alot...i had two other guys with me that night and he was drunk,he insisted that I was the only one who had permission and wanted the names of the other two guys,when i told him no he decided i wansn't allowed back on his land....

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I GOT A 1ST DEGREE PURPLE PAINT TICKET ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO THE NEXT DAY AFTER THE LAND OWNER HAD REMOVED MY COLLAR AT A TREE AND GOT THE INFORMATION OFF IT. MY GRANDPA LOADED ME IN THE TRUCK AND TOOK ME TO THE PROSECUTORS OFFICE. THEY WERE COUSINS AND HE HAD IT TOOK CARE OF FOR A $100. HE TOLD ME ANYTIME I WAS IN DOUBT TO CALL THE WARDEN AND HAVE HIM COME GET MY DOG. AFTER ABOUT 5 CALLS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT HE TOLD ME TO KEEP MY LIGHT DOWN AND JUST GO GET MY DOG AND IF I HAD ANY PROBLEMS TO CALL HIM THEN.

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Longshot, you're dead right! I live up in Macon County, and let me tell you, these big city deer hunters are gonna be the ruination of all the coon hunting around here. Don't have a problem if a man likes to deer hunt, just leave the big city attitude in the city. I've tried to explain to them that every coon we skin could possibly be one more nest of turkey or quail eggs left. I don't kill that many coon . But a lot of them won't budge anyway. I truly believe that our Cons. Dept. has this stinking deer hunting so commercialized that they really don't give a hoot about the small game and furbearer hunters. Within the last 3 yrs. I have been surrounded on all sides of my place by the city hunters. Gets kinda old hunting those places in the middle of the week. LOL Don't really know of a good solution yet. Oh well, I'm gonna keep running my hounds and we'll have to sort it out later. I seriously try to do my best to get along. But that ought to work both ways. Like I said, I don't shoot many coon out anyway. With a good Black & Tan you don't have to shoot a lot of coon to have a good dog. Thanks for letting me air on this.

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Im going to be calling this fella. Nice that he will answer questions.

Like I was saying you don't have to have written permission, just a good idea. At the least a verbal from everyone! At least a written permission you would be safe.

Dear Bryan,

In Missouri, you cannot enter into any property unless you have permission (writtern or verbal). We do not have a right to retrive law in this state. If you have further questions, please give me a call at 573/751-4115 ext. 3815.

Kurt Kysar
Protection Field Chief
Missouri Department of Conservation
Jefferson City, MO

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right to retrieve---

- as a houndsman , i like that law-- at least thats my first impression-


it can bite you in the rear -- think about it-from their point of view-

- somebody busts a gut to pay for and then pay taxes on some land--- they are under the stupid impression that they own it-

then you tell them , that you can go on their land to retrive your dogs--

it becomes a landowners rights issue-


its a big deal to them, to have control of their own land--

owning land is just an illusion anyway-

no such thing--

you buy the right to pay taxes on it--


the government tells you if you can build on it- maybe cut the trees on it- - or drain it- or divide it and sell a piece of it --


state and fed govenment chipping away at landowners lrights every year-

meanwhile their taxes going up


it makes em ugly ----

do not make them ugly-- lol

ask nicely -- - it works miracles sometimes-



getting a warden or police to help you get your dogs-

or just causing warden to be called-,,,,even if your in the right


that creates extra work for him-- he may hate it-- - i know its his job but he dont see it that way lol

,,,,he gets ugly- ,,,, at first, i find that amusing--


but it works against you in the long run--





last few years , game wardens have been busy little bees in the lawmaking process- in vermont-


they are pushing for and getting tighter laws concerning bear hunting with hounds

now this makes me ugly --lol


they should enforce laws--not make them---

i was told by the bigshots they have same right as anybody else to push for laws---

ok i agree , but they shouldnt wear a uniform to meetings- or lobby on their paid time-

but they do ---and their testimony is percieved as "" expert testimony--"""

if you think dealing with landowners is tough as a coonhunter----

try it as a bear hunter - lol

takes a large parcel of land - no doubt, some Anti owns a couple acres next to the thousands of acres im allowed on --

they dont want any hounds within hearing of their place---


that makes me ugly --lol


i dont want a jet landing in my garden --- but i dont complain about the ones flying over- lol


why do these %+#@ always own the best game crossing for miles ????? lol


wow -that written permission law is tough-

we can hunt ,,if its not posted -

posted signs are contagious


one guy posts his land and the adjoining landowners post in self defence or retalliation -





-

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Its getting very tough around here to free cast your hounds without the worry of trespassing. The last thing I want is to hunt where Im not wanted. It does make things worse. Just gives the land owners more leverage. As we all know its about being polite, asking for permission and understanding there point of view. They have responsability as land owners. You get hurt on there ground what happens then? Something to think about.

So many hounds anymore hunt hard and straight. They can get thru a section and be on no hunting ground quick.

What a situation! Hunt smart, be safe and legal is all we can do.

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