Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3069

quote:

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Originally posted by engman99
I consider myself a pretty good dog trainer and I believe I can explain how a good dog trainer usually has a pretty good one on the end of his leash.
Here is how I do it.
Step 1) Train a good one.
Step 2) Start another one while you are hunting the good one.
Step 3) Cull or sale the one you are starting,depending on ability.
Step 4) Keep repeating steps 2 and 3.Hopefully you will get another good one that suits you before the good one dies,lololol!

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

I'll throw another little curve ball to this discussion.


Ive seen a few of the "freaks" go in my time, and in my opinion there are a few more out there than come to the surface. The reason is there too much dog for the average coonhunter.

Most were outrageously smart, had phenomenal drive, where for the most part unmatched for speed, and tended to be a bit trashy in the wrong hands. In the hands of a trainer who knew how to get and KEEP there attention these individuals took coonhunting to a whole new level. This kind could almost pull coon out of there butt in the hands of a good trainer, but where just as likely to drive a deer to death in the wrong hands.

Most of these where not very good producers, mostly because the average hunter couldn't keep up with there pups. They were labeled as Crazy and shot young. When a talented trainer got one of there pups, they had a once in a lifetime dog.

Most "coonhunters" THINK they want to lead Man-o-War around and barely have the ability to keep a handle on the ol grey mare.


Then there where a few of those who went from nothing to coondog in a couple months and a 10 year old could have been leading them when they did it. Same ability as the above description, with the exception of drive. These tend to look good when fresh, but couldn't handle 300+ nights a year of hunting. These for some reason seem to produce a high percentage of pups who are naturals and make better than average dogs no matter who gets them.


I have always had a soft spot for the first type. Ive seen a few in my time, and owned 2 of them.

When it comes to selling pups, the second type usually get the best reputation because any Tom, Dick, or Harry can make a decent dog out of there pups.


1 more thought as to why these freaks are just that freaks. Most of the time a person with a genius IQ is born to parents with average or below average intelligence. Almost always when 2 parents with genius IQ's have a child, that child is of average intelligence. I believe that's the reason why we will never have a litter of "freaks".

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

This has been a good thread.

Larry, I have run across a couple of broncs that would have been great in the right hands.

There are some studs that don't get much publicity because their pups are too tough.

Old Gr. Nt. Ch. Double Springs Echo was one of those.

His pups were too much dog for most hunters, just like he would have been too much dog for most men.

For the man willing to hunt them hard enough, and spend the time breaking them, they made outstanding hounds.

There are studs, and I am thinking of one right now, that are popular because they produce a high percentage of decent, natural tree dogs that aren't trashy and can be trained by the two night a week coon hunter.

There is a high demand for those types of pups. Haul them enough and you can finish them in the hunts, and they won't cost you much sleep.

The trouble is, when you have had one or two of the special kind, it is hard to be satisfied with those "decent" ones.

I have always had a soft spot for those wild ones--if they had brains to go woth their drive.

Still, there have been times when, about 3:00 AM on a bad night, I have wished I was hunting something a little lower geared.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3069

I can belive most of what you said larry, especialy where i live, we dont have the extream population of coons like some places do so that contributes to a lot of Frustrations that we have with our hounds. also, if you are not a rich man or if you dont have the means to spend the big bucks on all the right equipment like some do then you are handycapped from the start.
when i started coon hunting back in the 70s and 80s , we didnt have a tracking systems and E Collors like we do now, although the woods where more open and there where more tall timbers as well .
I have seen some of those Hard going trash running types that if the right person had of hunted the dog they would have been special to say the least .

you have brought out some very good points

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

This brings me to the reason I rarely let outside females breed to Looser.

The ol boy has all the tools to be a stud dog. All Grand pedigree, won his share in the hunts, looks to die for, comes from a top ten cross, tallent and brains like I havent seen in a dog for many many years.


Then theres the fact that as a young dog he was a renegade from hell. Most comp hunters around Boone IA can tell you a horrer story about a 2 or 3 mile hike to him treed on a night hunt somewhere. Larry Robinson hunted him 362 nights as a 2 year old trying to hunt him down. He about broke Larry from coonhunting and there arent many guys that hunt as hard as he does.


I got him and saw through his renegade ways. I worked with him on manners and controled his every move for months. He couldnt get out of the crate to piss unless I let him out.

Now days he goes to the woods or where ever else I take him and I never even take a lead with me. 99% of the time he stays in pocket even when hunted in very thin coon. Still has all the talent he ever had, just now days hes "hooked on" and I have his attention.

When were done hunting I tell him to "stay with me" and we walk back to the truck with him on my heels.


Most people would have never got past the renegade stage and he would have died another "gooden" that your buddys hated to hunt with.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Hounds may not be as far along as other animals for us to see the consistancy we'd like ... but the same rules apply .

Your luck is directly linked to your talent as a trainer , eye for dogs as a breeder .... and hard work as a hunter.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
Posts: 845

Good post Larry, so I'm back to my question. Does a good dog have to have the rough edges filed off by a good trainer to reach his potential and become that one in a lifetime dog? Maybe too much dog and not enough trainer? Elvis has said some things on here that young hunters would do well to heed too.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

quote:

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Originally posted by bandithunter
Good post Larry, so I'm back to my question. Does a good dog have to have the rough edges filed off by a good trainer to reach his potential and become that one in a lifetime dog? Maybe too much dog and not enough trainer? Elvis has said some things on here that young hunters would do well to heed too.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern MN
Posts: 692

Im not going to pretend to know anything, im still very new to the game only being around for just over a year now. I do know that i have yet to see that freak, even the dogs i think highly of iv seen stand on there head and do bone headed stuff. Hunting 5 nights a week dont hurt nothing either. I cant think of any dogs that i strongly dislike off the top of my head, i strongly think most the dogs out there with holes are handler related or just plain lack of time in the woods.JMO, nice post!

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