UKC Forums - Adviser vs. rule book

	UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store

UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0

UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Adviser vs. rule book

Pages (10): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »

Last Thread Next Thread

Author

Thread

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

I'm also going to add what about the definition of attempting to fight how can that be judged from afar? Per UKC Rulebook... Attempting to Fight: 1) Showing aggressive behavior AND (NOTICE IT DOESN'T SAY OR) 2) Interfering with another dog(s) during the authority of the judge.
How can one judge whether interference with a dog or dogs has taken place when you are not in a place to see what is happening? Isn't this one of the reasons that a judge can be at the tree within the 5 minutes?
One more thing while I'm on this rules thing... 18 Definitions Babbling: When a dog opens three times or has been struck where no track is evident. Shouldn't this definition just be opening where no track is evident, or replace the OR with AND. According to the current definition any time a dog barks more than three times it is babbling.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:16 PM

Click here to Send Redneck Mafia a Private Message

Allen / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9267

The majority of judging a nite hunt requires using your ears and good judgement. Can all agree on that one?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:17 PM

Click here to Send Allen / UKC a Private Message

yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Yep.......... Mowed the grass yesterday crap won't quit growing lol. Recording Mrs tars soap oprees lol. It gets dark I am outa here !!

Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:18 PM

Click here to Send yadkintar a Private Message

TylerOSU
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 387

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
I'm also going to add what about the definition of attempting to fight how can that be judged from afar? Per UKC Rulebook... Attempting to Fight: 1) Showing aggressive behavior AND (NOTICE IT DOESN'T SAY OR) 2) Interfering with another dog(s) during the authority of the judge.
How can one judge whether interference with a dog or dogs has taken place when you are not in a place to see what is happening? Isn't this one of the reasons that a judge can be at the tree within the 5 minutes?
One more thing while I'm on this rules thing... 18 Definitions Babbling: When a dog opens three times or has been struck where no track is evident. Shouldn't this definition just be opening where no track is evident, or replace the OR with AND. According to the current definition any time a dog barks more than three times it is babbling.

Lordy she's on a role today! Should I ask how long can I lead/not lead my dog away from a tree before turning it loose?

__________________
It's all about preventative judging and situational handling that keeps you out of trouble.
Owner of TIER 1 CUSTOM CALLS
POWERED BY PURINA

Team Mafia
2022 UKC World Champion
2019-2022 UKC World Qualifier
2019 Ok Prohunt Semi-finalist
2019 Spring SS Top 20
20,21, and 23 OK State PKC Champion
2020 Spring SS Top 7
2019-2023 PKC National Qualifier
2020-2023 TOC Qualifier
2020 UKC Top 100
2022 UKC Top 100
2023 JOY Super Hunt Champion
2022 UKC WORLDCH PKC PCH CH GRNTCH3 "Get Gone Jenna"
DOB- 9/30/2017

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:19 PM

Click here to Send TylerOSU a Private Message

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
But on the other hand if you have to "see it" to minus a dog, they can run deer all night or fight and run dogs off from every tree all night and never get scratched. There is good and bad in every rule. That is why there are so many arguements about them. Sometimes you just have to take the bad with the good.

An unscrupulous judge can take advantage of any rule. What if you tree your dog and the judge says that he thinks he moved and minuses him. Should we do away with that rule or change it to say that you have to see them move? Comp coonhunting sure is complicated.

Richard, I wouldn't worry about a dog that runs all night. As for the running dogs off trees, who is the aggressor, which dog was interfered with? Scratching a dog is a big thing and shouldn't be taken lightly or allowed without evidence. Funny how a judge/cast can scratch a dog for something they may suspect but circle it up when it comes in late and blows up on a possum tree after the judge has arrived lol.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:26 PM

Allen / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9267

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Lordy she's on a role today! Should I ask how long can I lead/not lead my dog away from a tree before turning it loose?

Tyler, don't you start now!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:28 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Lordy she's on a role today! Should I ask how long can I lead/not lead my dog away from a tree before turning it loose?

Write it up and I will see that it gets to the proper authorities, notice I said it plural not just one.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:32 PM

TylerOSU
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 387

LOL

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Tyler, don't you start now!

Sorry Alan I know you don't have anything better to do then get given a hard time! We are kind of hard headed down here in the 4 state area if you couldn't tell and Jen heads that up!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:35 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Lordy she's on a role today! Should I ask how long can I lead/not lead my dog away from a tree before turning it loose?

Yes sir!
Now last but not least does anyone have the answer yet as to 4(e) and it being in the rules? Rule 7. TIME OUTS no longer containing moving to new hunt ground because you want to. And all reasons to call time out under Rule 7 refered to Rule 5(f) deleted strike points what is the purpose of rule 4(e) minusing strike points for calling dogs off trail.
Does Rule 4(e) need taken off the card? Or would hunters like the option again of using 4(e) by adding to Rule 7 Time Outs the option to call dogs off trail to go to new hunting ground with a reference to Rule 4(e). This would also need an exception from Rule 5(e) deleted strike from time outs.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:53 PM

Allen / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9267

Re: LOL

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Sorry Alan I know you don't have anything better to do then get given a hard time! We are kind of hard headed down here in the 4 state area if you couldn't tell and Jen heads that up!

Haha. I expect some good proposals coming from your neck of the woods next year. Run them by Tar first, he's a hard-head too. lol.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 06:56 PM

yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I am only asking for two no leash lock and tree countdown. I can deal with the rest you can deal deal with Jen lol.

Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:18 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Yes sir!
Now last but not least does anyone have the answer yet as to 4(e) and it being in the rules? Rule 7. TIME OUTS no longer containing moving to new hunt ground because you want to. And all reasons to call time out under Rule 7 refered to Rule 5(g) deleted strike points what is the purpose of rule 4(e) minusing strike points for calling dogs off trail.

So my husband who knows the answer to most doesn't know why it is still there but at one time was frequently used to change hunting spots. But that rule is no longer on the card.
Allen has yet to give me an answer, maybe he will come up with something.
Many are still using it like it was for a long time. So maybe this calling dogs in off trail to go to new hunting ground needs added back to the Time Out section of the rules again with a reference to 4(e) to take minus unlike the emergency type situations from Time Outs that reference Rule 5(g) of deleted points.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:19 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Hey ,hey y'all red dog guys settle down ! Believe it or not there are dogs that can run a coon fast enough to make you think it's a deer.

It's called a treeing walker you know the ones that are winning all the major hunts lol.

Tar

Quote of the day!
Tar just when Richard gets relaxed you have to go stir him up again. No wonder he needs a furnished weeniebago complete with snacks and a tea!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:23 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The majority of judging a nite hunt requires using your ears and good judgement. Can all agree on that one?

Yes to take strike and tree calls. But you have no idea what it is running or what has been treed until it is seen 😉.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:26 PM

Clif Owen
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

I was "victimized" in a RQE once. First turnout, the dogs all ran about 75 yards and blew up on a tree. There was some commotion going on and we headed in. My dog did a bit of face barking...yes, I admit that. He was scratched for attempting to fight. Well, I really couldn't argue the point although he hadn't missed a bark while the scuffle was happening. The judge started telling me how to get back to the clubhouse. I told him he wasn't getting rid of me that easy. I was going to spectate the rest of the time. (One of the handlers had ridden with me) About an hour into the cast; there was a fight...not growling or face barking..those dudes were rolling!! Very obvious which 2 dogs were involved but weren't seen, therefore not scratched. Only bad part was I really thought the bad dog was the dog that won the cast. Turns out, it was a female that was the problem. Just proves that if you get one that is mean; she is really bad news. The Sam dog evidently was forced to defend himself and not 1 but 2 dogs gained bad reputations.

For the record, my dog didn't ever start any fights but he didn't run if another dog did. I just didn't know that at the time.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:44 PM

Click here to Send Clif Owen a Private Message

yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Back in the day time outs were used for more than moving spots !!

Might be why we didn't have questions brought back.

Best time to correct a dog is right when it happens.

But those days are gone dagumit

Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 07:55 PM

Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Tar

No more brownies for you, until you get that skunk smell off. Lol. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 08:02 PM

Click here to Send Dave Richards a Private Message

Toad Hill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Haha.....

How about we flip roles and you tell me how you would rule on my dog that you are, without conviction, fully convinced is running fast game out of the country but then eventually falls off and trees a coon. That can and does happen, right or wrong?

Absolutely !!!! All the time !!!!
But there is no way im gonna scratch you cause there is NO WAY i can prove it AND if i did scratch you you'd just question it and make me out like the bad guy at the clubhouse crying for getting beat and just trying to eliminate u. It wouldnt be worth it to me.
We can twist it however u want but thats the way its played .... and again we didnt fall out of a tree and bump our heads.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 08:13 PM

Click here to Send Toad Hill a Private Message

yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Dave you think maybe a lot of the common sense rules come from we didn't have as many hunts as today and we studied our dogs and hunted hard for months before we went to hunts. These younger ones are in hunts 4 nights a week they are more focused on competing with the rules than competing and knowing their dog . I mean in the summer give me a babbling tree happy dog and I can do my fair share of $$$ winning locally and maybe a big one or two.

Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 10-23-2018 at 08:23 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 08:15 PM

Toad Hill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1169

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Toadhill, we can debate and agree or not agree on various topics. When I say that, I hope you're not taking it to be offensive or criticizing your opinion, as that's not the intent at all. I love a good rule discussion.

There's a rule change year coming up next year. If this is one you'd like to see the criteria change when it comes to scratching dogs for running fast game or fighting, then propose a good change.

Wouldn't it be nice if the rules were so perfect that everyone agreed with every one of them and no one would have any reason to debate them?

Yes we can debate .... No offense taken at all . I dont know the answer alot of times thats why i ask it ....i dont ask just be facetious .

Yes it would but we are human, using one animal to chase a wild animal - ANYTHING can happen !

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

10-23-2018 08:20 PM

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:47 PM.

Pages (10): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »

Last Thread Next Thread

Show Printable Version |

Email this Page |

Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:

Forum Rules:

You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts

HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

< Contact Us - United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2020, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)