Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Let me ask this question. If there is a group at the truck that have rounded up their dogs. But waiting on Dog D to get caught. At the one hour mark are they going to drive off and leave Dog D and Handler there alone. I don't think so. So Handler of Dog C going to help the man didn't delay anything. What is the difference between waiting at the truck and going into the woods trying and help the handler round up his dog. Now if the cast agreed at the 1 hour mark they were going to go finish the cast and leaving for a new spot and leaving handler D out there alone. Which is possible if handler D knows the woods well. Then handler C should have stayed at the truck and at one hour proceeded with the cast to hunt the remaining time. But if it was agreed the cast was going to wait on handler D then handler C going with him should not get him scratched. Actually handler C probably speeded up the process of getting the dog caught. No good deed goes unpunished. I know there is to much common sense here for any coonhunting rules to understand. They are rules enforced depending on what side of the fence you are on.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I have been left and I have left people. I have told the cast to go on hunting if I am not back. What is the difference in being left and hunting by yourself? Why would anyone need someone to go with them to get their dog? When the hunt is over do you expect the cast to sit and wait on you to catch your dog or do you tell them that you will see them at the club? In these days of Garmins, cell phones and GPS you are never "all by yourself".

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Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 1058

Been following this thread...
For you guys that think DOG C should not be scratched

This has been covered .. NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUT BUT BUTS...
Sportsmanship has nothing to do with it. IT IS THE RULES ....

This is why there are so many arguments on hunts.
Instead of knowing ,following ,or accepting the rules ..you get 4 (cast members) different opinions .. Plus throw in a MOH that does not know the rules either.

Handler of dog C was a nice guy.. and as we all know nice guys finish last...BUT NOT IN THIS CASE because of a MOH THAT RULED WRONG .

BOTH HANDLER AND DOG ..."MUST BE AT DETERMINED MEETING PLACE".... before the one hour elapses...PERIOD

DOG C ...IS SCRATCHED

See the newest rule book interpretations .page 64
Almost to a tee

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Last edited by benderb4 on 03-28-2021 at 05:17 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9266

I sure do understand how scratching a handler, who is helping another cast member catch their dog, sounds unjust and wrong when this good Samaritan isn't back within the allotted one hour and ready to continue on with the cast. Sounds terrible actually.

However, before we suggest this is a terrible rule consider ALL scenario's and why the rule includes "ANY" handler.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Kell, Il
Posts: 169

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
I sure do understand how scratching a handler, who is helping another cast member catch their dog, sounds unjust and wrong when this good Samaritan isn't back within the allotted one hour and ready to continue on with the cast. Sounds terrible actually.

However, before we suggest this is a terrible rule consider ALL scenario's and why the rule includes "ANY" handler.

---

Last edited by DocAcumen on 03-29-2021 at 07:43 PM

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: long bottom ohio
Posts: 278

This is why there are so many problems on ukc cast there is no argument if you follow the rules both are scratched not a bad break for c he chose to go I’m sure he is a heck of a guy but you either follow the rules or not.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Kell, Il
Posts: 169

So, you saying what i asked is not a potability?

if there is a back up handler that is with the cast? and said dog returns to the cast.....

Would it still be scratched?

As that was what i was asking.

Both Dog , and backup handler are present with cast under the hour?

How would that work?

Does the back up handler need to be given the rights?

Or , would it be that the dog and backup are present within the hour?

Last edited by DocAcumen on 04-01-2021 at 01:18 AM

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: long bottom ohio
Posts: 278

In my opinion he would have to be there to turn handling duties over to backup handler. If I was judging that’s how it would be handled

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

My thoughts on this, and I am not a UKC official nor do I have a rule to back it up, but if you have a legitimate, declared back up handler like they do for some events then I would think if the back up handler and dog were there they would be good to go because they have already been designated as the back up handler before the hunt started and they are on the card as the back up handler. In that case the handler has already given permission for them to step in if needed and it was officially approved before the hunt started.

Now a spectator is not designated as a back up handler before the hunt. UKC has those designated ahead of time only certain hunts so that is the ones I am talking about.

As for spectators:

Here is rule 11

"(c) Any handler unable to complete hunt must pick up his dog, or Judge to give permission for another handler to complete hunt."

The way I read that is that if the handler can communicate to the judge that he wants his spectator to finish the hunt and they are there and ready to go it would be allowed but I don't see that as automatic like it would be where the back up handler is declared before the hunt. In this case the judge would have to give permission and that permission would have to be given before the time expired. It would be up to the judge.

That is my take on it and as a judge if they communicated that to me I would give the permission for someone else to take over because the rules state very clearly I can do that.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3449

Why was this backup handler invented in the middle of this thread? The handler wasn't there. It shouldn't matter how good a favor he was doing. He wasn't there. If he had a backup handler this thread would never have been started.

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Donald Bergeron

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Registered: Oct 2020
Location: Bridgeport, WV
Posts: 3

I know it matters not but Handler C has and takes all the Honor on this night. Titles, trophies and points fall short compared with Handler C's integrity and love of Hound.

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