Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, is it really just "all about the money" now? Y'all should be out pleasure hunting/training your dog during the week.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

The hunts in one way or the other are geared towards the MONEY. If putting titles on dogs did not sell pups, produce Stud fees and higher prices for dogs with TITLES, do you really think anyone would be interested in the night hunts. If the $ KC did not give them a chance to win bigger dollars, do you think the guys would be hunting in their hunts. You can think anything you like, but bottom line on any of the hunts is motivation to increase the value of your dogs, pups, or Stud fees. You sell pups and how many could you sell if none of your dogs had a title or none of them never had any titled dogs in their pedigree? Like it or not, folks judge the value based on Titles and or money won. Tar brought up some interesting points, agree or disagree, but do not fool yourself into thinking it's not about the money. We all agree that the TITLES have been diminished, but they still sell pups, still bring higher prices than non titled dogs and generate interest in breeding both male and female........it is about the money. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Location: Marietta
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The world us old doggies loved is gone I still love to hear a good dog work as much as I ever did. But I can do that in a relaxed atmosphere at my own pace. Now these young ones want to hunt for money during the week and run state races win pickups ect and they will throw money left and right to do it. Most until the tournament of champions never even sent their ukc papers in. That’s why the changes were made ukc knew this and that’s their bread and butter registration!! Bottom line you stump your toe or take to long to evolve there is anouther kc that has a man on the phone 24/7 that will take their money and work hard for it.


The choice is ukc’s to make simple as that.



Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

You are correct, the hunts are more for the younger hunters, they are in fact the future of the sport. They are getting a taste of the money involved these days and that's what motivates them. A lot of these guys do not care one bit about pleasure hunting and that's fine with me. Myself, I was always a pleasure hunter than enjoyed the challenge of the competition hunts. The right to show case my hide dog/s to hunt when the hide season was over. Today the training season is open year around, coons are more abundant, and the younger hunters want the hotter nosed action packed dogs, quick treeing, score card dogs. Most do not even hunt in the winter months, they live for the summer hunts, nothing wrong with that if that's what you like. We CAN NOT hold these younger hunters to the standards we think define coon hunting, they are setting their own standards. I am just glad to see them hunting, carrying on a sport in their own way that I spent over 50 years hunting my own way. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 512

Tar and I have the unique pleasure of accompanying a young 15 yr old girl youth hunter as she chases a dream.

She is in the top 4 of all youth handlers in another registry
She is the top youth handler in Texas
She has won over $2,100 this year
Has a youth showdown ticket
Made a dog a Silver Champion in that registry

She loves competing and loves winning money!

We get to see her win and it is awesome. All it costs us is our time.

UKC made some shattering changes this year from the voices of the hunters in this sport. I am so thankful they recognized that something had to be done. More needs to happen so young hunters can be attracted to UKC and like it or not, money is it. National and state races need to be established, so people can see it. The opportunity is now and I hope it doesn’t get overlooked.

I started this post because I am concerned we will arrive at next year.....and the tournament will be cancelled due to funds or something.....of course COVID will be the reason given. We need to act now and make sure this hunt happens.

The SS is gonna put 1,000 dogs in the woods this week! Imagine if UKC had 1,000 dogs in the woods this week.

Tim

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Tim Green
Retired Air Force 24+ years
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

I am proud of you guys, the youth is definitely the future of our sport. Yes, maybe they are more concerned about the money, but at least they are competing and coon hunting, not sitting on the couch playing games. I sure hope UKC will do what it takes to keep our youth interested in our sport. Thank you for being a mentor, sound like you got the real deal handler. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: May 2017
Location: Manchester, TN
Posts: 326

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
The world us old doggies loved is gone I still love to hear a good dog work as much as I ever did. But I can do that in a relaxed atmosphere at my own pace. Now these young ones want to hunt for money during the week and run state races win pickups ect and they will throw money left and right to do it. Most until the tournament of champions never even sent their ukc papers in. That’s why the changes were made ukc knew this and that’s their bread and butter registration!! Bottom line you stump your toe or take to long to evolve there is anouther kc that has a man on the phone 24/7 that will take their money and work hard for it.


The choice is ukc’s to make simple as that.



Tar

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PKC CH GRNTCH Wright's Lone Pine Shine

At Stud: Gr. Nt. Ch. Wright's Stylish Lotto Bawls (click here to see ad)

Former Home of Gr. Nt. Ch. Bawling Rebel.

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Registered: May 2017
Location: Manchester, TN
Posts: 326

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
You are correct, the hunts are more for the younger hunters, they are in fact the future of the sport...

...We CAN NOT hold these younger hunters to the standards we think define coon hunting, they are setting their own standards. I am just glad to see them hunting, carrying on a sport in their own way that I spent over 50 years hunting my own way. Dave

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PKC CH GRNTCH Wright's Lone Pine Shine

At Stud: Gr. Nt. Ch. Wright's Stylish Lotto Bawls (click here to see ad)

Former Home of Gr. Nt. Ch. Bawling Rebel.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I wonder where that young girl learned that hunting for money in that other KC was the most important thing?

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 592

I am not a UKC basher at all, still identify myself as a UKC hunter, but unfortunately brand X has built the better mouse trap..

1. the Super Stakes program drives a tremendous amount of grass roots hunting and drama/entertainment twice a year.

2. State Race and hunts pull a number of hunters into the fray

3. Chasing a pup ticket or national ticket drives a lot of folks

4. multiple added purse regional hunts drive large crowds..

Our local club had a three day hunt here in May - we have not had a UKC hunt in ages and drew right at 500 entries in three nights.. Had dogs and handlers from all over show up...

The UKC performance program is an absolute failure and they should recognize that and change it..

Autumn Oaks and Walker days are still premier hunts but that's about it and allowing high score to rule instead of cast wins gives such a black eye to the integrity of UKC and poses such a high hurdle to someone who can't pull a big time guide with a perfect set up. If you can afford that or have the contacts you have an immense edge if your packing a coon dog to begin with. Some of those scores have been legit, but others they just plus every tree and go just to drive it.. My opinion anyways.. The cast win scenario levels the playing field.

UKC is still viable and offers a reasonable product, they either hold that niche and slowly wither away or they continue to make changes that work.

I personally would love to see a return to the old days, but don't think it will happen.. I'd love to have a dog calling contest again vs the split up mess we deal with today.. WE hunt dogs who won't compete with each other, but compete to get away from each other. Kind of an odd way it's ended up..

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 512

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I wonder where that young girl learned that hunting for money in that other KC was the most important thing?

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Tim Green
Retired Air Force 24+ years
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

You got that right, friend of mine opened a gun store a few years back, stocked it with guns he liked and did not sell many at all. Decided he better put guns the public wanted in his store if he was going to have a successful business. He has been at it now for several years and doing very good, but selling WHAT his customers WANT. Lol. You notice that some folks act like the money hunts are poison, but like to sell pups for 500.00 each, but pretend it's not about the money.Well, as the Indians used to say about the white man, " he speaks with forked tongue". Nothing wrong with the hunters winning money, Lord knows the KC'S are not in the business for fun. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I think all effort has been geared tword registration and promoting just enough of a product to justify people purcasing Dog papers. 89% of their help is free labor ( us) when it gets to a point they can’t run it from Kalamazoo they will just be a registry probly just be a northern based company to remain profitable.



We are not telling them anything they don’t already know they will just ride it till the wheels fall off.



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, it sounds like they should just hire Tarbaby as President to run UKC. He would straighten them out. It would be like the USA electing Biden to be our President.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, it sounds like they should just hire Tarbaby as President to run UKC. He would straighten them out. It would be like the USA electing Biden to be our President.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 203

Plan and simple

Get younger hunters more involved.
Internet is a powerful tool now days.
The old style hunts are not working anymore.

Tournament of champions was a start.
Keep the momentum going.

I know covid screwed things up.

Put some younger guys in some roles to help.
I think yall would benefit.

Titles are nice but $$$ makes the world go around.

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HITT KENNELS
YADKIN TAR HOUNDS
Robert & Corey Hitt

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

It takes moll a maximum of 15 minutes to answer a thread like this so it don’t get out of hand. Yey or ney !!



Silence is harmful.


Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

UKC is way more lenient in allowing threads with opposing views than PKC. YOU JUST TRY posting a thread that is critical of PKC on their board and see how long it lasts. WE should be grateful to UKC that they are tolerant of views that are not so favorable to them. Criticism is not always a bad thing, it brings things to light that may be helpful to any business. Sometimes it's best to just sit back, take everything that's being said in stride before making any real changes or decisions. DO NOT mistake SILIENCE for weakness or assume silience means they DO NOT CARE. Remember this is a UKC FORUM they could censor anything they choose, it's a privilege not a right to post on this FORUM. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9269

Listening.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 203

Thanks Allen for listening. I grew up with UKC. I favor Ukc. I myself like the Tournament of champions. I think it will help.

I can only speak from Oklahoma. There is the need for a major hunt like battle of the breeds was when i was a kid.

There is need for interest of younger hunters. Social media and cash or object prizes i believe would spark interest.

Maybe gather info from younger hunters to see the intrest.

Just throwing ideas out there.

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HITT KENNELS
YADKIN TAR HOUNDS
Robert & Corey Hitt

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Listening.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 203

I think weeknight hunts would also be good. It would give more opportunities. And benfit clubs money flow to build the $$$ account to operate.

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YADKIN TAR HOUNDS
Robert & Corey Hitt

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Ok y’all plead your case today the bossman listening I ain’t got time for politics I am going fishing.



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

As I look back over these posts, all I see is money, money, $$$ in every one of them. Nowhere do I see anything about the love of the Sport. Do the youth of today not care anything about the hounds or the love of coon hunting and competing with a dog that they own and helped train? Do they just want to go to a hunt with someone else's dog and win money? What has our Sport become? Is it now just a bunch of rich guys gambling on which dog will win?

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 512

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
As I look back over these posts, all I see is money, money, $$$ in every one of them. Nowhere do I see anything about the love of the Sport. Do the youth of today not care anything about the hounds or the love of coon hunting and competing with a dog that they own and helped train? Do they just want to go to a hunt with someone else's dog and win money? What has our Sport become? Is it now just a bunch of rich guys gambling on which dog will win?

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Retired Air Force 24+ years
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