Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Hit me again Tim I don't understand. I liked the old 80's format that's when the changes came. up till now it's been the same for years. Now we all know who mr I want to hunt my grntch with the ntch was and this other stuff was his idea also matter a fact where has he been he has been awfull quiet lately.



Are they going to start giving a ukc web warrior award ?



Tar

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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It is funny now that we have elimination style hunts in ukc now they are easy. Before it changed all ya heard was the other kc's was awesome and the WAY. Always heard all ya can do is win your cast but now all the talk is a different tune.
Ok up next is winners go back out to hunt for the win or can we split the title instead. LOL

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Always a way to get to the truth, just have to push the rite buttons.

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Pam you still got to tree a coon in ukc to win tho ! Well sometimes lol.


Tim I ain't forgot wonder how many of those ntch's he has been beaten up on since the changes ?



Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 03-02-2019 at 06:53 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
In the past, winning the Champion class just meant that you were lucky enough to draw the best guide. It had nothing to do with the best dog. I thought that changing the format was done to take the guide advantage and plusing all of the circle trees out of nite hunts. I didn't realize that it was done to make titles easier to obtain.

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Location: West Plains Mo
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Anyone who thinks it harder to win 5 hunts instead 8 cast shows just how many hunts they been attending. Most local hunts 90% only has 1 NtCh cast and ones that have 2 cast are never 4 dog cast.
So if you win the hunt in 5 hunts with one cast you have better dog than just winning you cast in 8 hunts with 1 cast. Ok makes sense to me.

Look up hunt entries in bloodline before they quite posting and see how many hunt has 2 NtCh cast.

Same thing with open cast I would like know how many people has won 5 open cast at local level and not got a first place in last 5 yrs. Maybe a few but not very many.

I'm say dont fix it if it isn't broke but this just goin add few more entries at local hunts without really changing thing. Win 8 Ntch cast most time you would made GrNt under old rule. Win 5 open cast under old rules most time your dog made NtCh. Nothing has really changed here.

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It's changed for me. Mine has two first places. All she needed was a 5th or better. Now she has to win three casts.

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Donald Bergeron

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Have to get new wording on the trophys :


High scoring cast winner of hunt.

Low scoring cast winner of hunt.



Tar

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quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Have to get new wording on the trophys :


High scoring cast winner of hunt.

Low scoring cast winner of hunt.



Tar

---

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Hunt test htx

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Registered: Apr 2015
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Spot on Pam, what some want us to believe is that high score equaled better dog. All it ever meant was that the cast hunted better ground, the high scorer only beat at most the dogs on that cast, and in recent years hunting off feeders/buckets. The magic 1st place win due to score was put on lots of dogs hunting on buckets or the guides honey holes. Scored was never an indicator of which dig was better, when they NEVER hunted the same ground or hunted together. Cast wins are a much better indicator of what dog, heck they could have a handoff if cast winners to determine WHO is the best that night. Without a format like that, one can not ever beat the dogs in other casts, ALL they can ever do is beat the dogs in their cast. This works well in the money hunts for a reason, it's simply the best way. ALL those hanging on to the old format of high scoring dog without a hunt off to determine the real winner, is in denial of facts. You only beat the dogs in your cast, regardless of score. Gone are the advantages that some COVETED in having their honey holes for running up a high score. Bull crap on the participation award comments, every cast winner with plus points earned it, nobody is giving them anything. Dave

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I don't buy Dave's comment that a high score only means the dog hunted better ground. That totally ignores the fact that some dogs are faster and better than other dogs. It doesn"t gold up in the real world.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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Jim if I want to win a hunt I am not going to guide to a sorry spot that's just part of the game. I don't know because of being from back in the day I still take pride in saying my dog was high scoring dog of hunt instead of saying she won her cast three times. She won three first in three hunts and was high scoring dog of hunt all three times that might not mean nothing to nobody else but I raise my own dogs and it means everything to me.


Tar

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
I don't buy Dave's comment that a high score only means the dog hunted better ground. That totally ignores the fact that some dogs are faster and better than other dogs. It doesn"t gold up in the real world.

---

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Donald Bergeron

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They may have only treed one coon because of their ability or getting minused for their faults not because of the spot they are hunting.



Tar

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You prove that to me, they have been settling this in the $KC'S for a long time now with proven results. Cast winners advancing regardless of score, How many times do you think an early cast winner with a big score has won these bigger hunts. Prove your theory to me with facts. Please tell us how you conclude a higher score in one cast proves a better dog won without that dog hunting against the other casts. This new format is not perfect, but beats the heck out of the old system based solely on high score. High score by hunting in honey holes? Surely, you don't think all casts are hunting on equal footing [ground ]. How many times has a big hunt been won with a high score hunting in these coveted spots? Reality check, the big hunts should all be on a cast winner elimination format that proves the best dog, not on a single cast win with a bigger score. This won't happen in UKC for several reasons time, hunting ground, etc as there is not as much at state as there is in the $ KC'S. It is a known fact that many of the bigger hunt have had paid guides to put them in better ground in order to secure higher scores. Was this ever fair to all those cast hunting public ground or dry holes? Shame on any one that clings to the mistaken thought they won a hunt without hunting against all the other cast winners, just because they beat the dogs in their cast with a high score. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Last year at the winter classic the high score one night was around 1400 plus she treed 2or 3 coon quick and the other dogs withdrew she was drop hunted alone the rest of the cast this female has won in different reg. And pretty sure was world ch. this year for her breed there is some variables in every cast but the creme usaully rises to the top

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They may have treed 1 coon because there were not any more in that area. You can never prove you have a better dog unless you hunt that dog against all the others or at least the cast winners. Cast winner, elimination style hunts are the only true indicator of the best dog that night. Don't give me that crap about high score in one cast being the deserved winner of a hunt. There have been many compelling arguments to go with this new system of cast winners, yet we have folks stuck in the misguided notion that a high score was the true indicator. Attendance is so low now that a cast winner has an excellent chance of getting a first place win. How many casts did your dog compete against in getting 3 first place wins? Nothing smart on my part, just curious. I will guess no more than 5/6 total in the 3 hunts. Dave

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Last edited by Dave Richards on 03-04-2019 at 02:35 AM

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Two cast 6 dogs twice 8 dogs once and one cast of ntch two hunts she was the only dog in the entire hunt with plus points. But I agree I been hunting in the $$$ hunts a long time and the big boys got places leased at all major hunts. So you just beat who you draw so you get a chance at them later on in the hunt. They do stack the deck in their favor all you can do is keep advancing the best you can to get a shot at them.


Tar

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Thank you for your honest answer, that sounds about right for the majority of hunts these days. Win your cast and there you go, at most took 3 hunts to make night champion, takes at least 5 now , that's 40 % more wins. Pretty much the same with night champion wins , at least you have to win 8 nightf champion cast now. Which was easier? Who can really say, which is fairer, no doubt the new system. For those that high score matters give them a high scoring dog trophy badge. Yes, you are correct about the stacked deck, it was just as stacked or more so in the bigger UKC hunts under the old system . I have never worried about the dogs in my cast it was more about where we hunted, you can not score coons if they aren't there. A dog in my casts that beats me was just a better dog in most cases, yet those in other casts I never had any control over their score or where they hunted. Anyone not believing that where you hunt on a cast is an advantage or disadvantage is just not all there. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 03-04-2019 at 03:08 AM

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Mr Richards you are correct that's why many hunters look at the major events and pay no attention to them unless they are an elimination style event it's impossible to really get a even hunt without elimination type of events

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Ukcs grand masters event is more popular and draws more interest by many than the national grand nite ch. do at the oaks

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Thank you. UKC is trying hard to make our hunts more attractive to all hunters and eliminate the buddy, honey hole advantages that have plagued our hunts in the past. I feel like one day all the bigger hunts will be on cast winner elimination system to determine the True winner/s of these Hunts. We all speak of making these Champions and Winners mean something and that would go a long way in achieving this goal. There is NOT a one of us that have followed these Hunts for any length of time that did not see the inequities of the hunting grounds at any big hunt. Scores alone did not and can never determine what everyone says they want, a true champion. It was a skewed system that benefited a select few who usually won these Hunts or placed high. Paid guides, select hunting ground, etc. That not all benefited from. What's fair about a cast hunting public land that has been hunted to death competing against a cast hunting protected private land teeming with coons and letting high score dictate the WINNER? Better dog faster dog as some has said or lucky dog in getting that draw? Or was it just a deeper pocket owner? Beat my dog and you won, hunting better ground and scoring higher dies not mean anything to me. I should not brag about treeing 4 coons if I saw 39/40 sitting around, while old Joe treed 1 coon on public ground that had been hunted to death, That's just me, everyone has a choice. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Also Mr. Richards guides like Mr. Hitt are needed at every event because he takes pride in putting a cast in the best places possible and gives the winner of his cast a chance to be in the final 4 or win the event but at large hunts it's impossible to have that many good guides and good hunting spots with several hundred dogs

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You are a wise man, I can tell you have experience with these Hunts. There are enough uncontrollable variables in these Hunts , one being good guides, and many more, weather, good in some spots, raining in others, etc. That we sure don't need the WINNER being determined by high score on a certain cast. How would that be fair in anyone's mind. Cast winners advance, elimination style hunt, now everyone is playing on the same field. All any dog can do is win it's cast, no matter how good that dog is, it can not compete with dogs in other casts based on score. Win your cast, advance and have a true champion in the end, not a champion based on a one cast score or even a 2 night score without everyone having a fair chance to win. I can see where the honey hole , private land plenty of coon guys that get these draws not liking this format. Heck they will have to actually beat other cast winners and prove they are a champion. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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