Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

I was a dang good lawyer and a real good handler, but I always had a coon dog on my lead, that made my job pretty easy. Nothing slick about one obeying all the rules and not just the ones we like or the ones that suit our needs. We all benefit by going by the same RULES, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but at least it's fair to all, not so when some bend the rules or do what they think is right even if it's against the RULES. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

But it is done way to much in competition hunts to snatch a win away from someone. If a dog is treed and stops to check itself it should not be misused if it doesn't leave trail barking and goes back to treeing on same tree, especially when no one is there to witness what dog is doing. If dog comes off tree to meet handler short distances a goes back on tree, it is still considered treed by rules. Garmins are used way to much in hunts to break rules by calling a dog and just as much or more in not calling a dog also. Therefore in many cases we not only compete against dogs and a lying handler and a Garmin in their hand continuously.

And garmins do malfunction,sometimes, similar to cell phones, just not intentionally.

Last edited by swamp1 on 11-27-2018 at 07:17 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3422

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Hennessey, not sure but it sounds like you don't understand how a Garmin works. The old beep beeps would show "treed" when a dog had it's head pointed up. The Garmin shows treed when a dog is not moving. If a dog just stands still the Garmin will show it treed. Dog's head position has nothing to do with it.
As I said, the Garmin doesn't lie but sometimes handlers don't realize what it is telling them. And sometimes they know but don't want to admit it. That is when they start quoting the rule about not using your Garmin to score a dog.

"The rules say that you can't use your Garmin to score a dog" is coonhunters slang for, "I know my dog should be minused but I am not going to admit it".

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Mr Hennessey, I said that I wasn't sure. I really don't know how much you know. It just sounded like that to me.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 163

shouldn't a handler be scratched for using his garmin to score/minus his dog JUST SAYING!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Using your Garmin to minus your dog isn't a scratchable offense.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3422

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Hennessey, I said that I wasn't sure. I really don't know how much you know. It just sounded like that to me.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Mr. Lambert is correct about 1 thing and that is, it is not a scratchable offense. However it is against the RULES to use a Garmin in scoring the dog/s in any manner, be it plus or minus. Mr, Lambert is suggesting using the Garmin to minus dog/s for moving, etc. And you just CAN NOT do this in a UKC HUNT. I think he knows this and is just messing with folks on this board. My thoughts are misinformation however intended is never good, some may think it is correct. Nuff said. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 163

lmao !!! just messing with Mr lambert not trying to get his pony tail in a fuzzy!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
...... And you just CAN NOT do this in a UKC HUNT......

---

Are you saying that if I tree my dog deep and she shuts up and then starts treeing again and I can see on my Garmin that she has moved over; I absolutely am not allowed to tell the judge to minus her and retree her? And if I do the judge can not minus her because that would be against the rules?
Oh my goodness, are you saying that I am not allowed to be honest and do the right thing because it is "against the rules"? I bet you were an excellant lawyer/handler. I bet that you never had a question overturned or a panel rule against you.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Now you have twisted the situation around! You can minus your own dog at any time for any reason, it's your dog. Your suggestion that everyone should use the Garmin to minus their dogs for moving, etc. Is the problem. Garmin can not be used in scoring our dogs period, you know that! Now if you use your Garmin and minus your dog I am sure no one would really care, just don't think others should as you have suggested. I told you that I was a dang good lawyer and mighty fine handler, but no one would ever tell you that I wasn't honest or cheated to win, you can take that to the bank. I probably minused my dog/s more times than the judge/s did if they done wrong and I still would. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: sunflower, ms.
Posts: 340

This is a good question that has turned into a garmin discussion. WHAT IF this cast took place before the garmin took over the hunts? I agree with Rocketman55.A cast of 4 and a judge can hunt 2 hours and when it's over ask each their interpretation of the cast and you will get 5 stories.Just a part of coon hunting.Jr Steelman

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Was a good question that had a simple answer, cast had a non hunting judge that scored the tree [ was not answered how this tree was initially scored ] and later minused the dog because the 3 remaining cast members said the dog moved. Judge was WRONG to change his scoring as he was the one to decide and not the cast members, if he could not determine the dog moved, he should not be swayed by cast members. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: sunflower, ms.
Posts: 340

X2 Dave.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 163

maybe the handler should have been watching his garmin and minused his own dog and saved the judge the trouble!!!!! hehehehehe.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

Well...after reading the comments; there is a little more to add...The judge and owner of dog honestly might not have known if the dog moved. No Garmin to tell them. Not invented at the time. And no doubt..110% positive the dog moved. Heck, we could have dang near shined the tree from where we waited. And he was at least 1/4 mile off at first. I figure they got confused with the splashing water. Not sure. Do I think the guy may have gotten a raw deal? Yes, but I'm the dummy that wouldn't let the judge my 2nd tree because I didn't see the coon he swore he saw. So, now that I've been called a crybaby, lazy and stupid; I guess nothing more needs to be added.
Well...1 more thing. I'm not sure he DID minus the dog. They may not have seen it. I only know who did win and it wasn't him.

Last edited by Clif Owen on 11-28-2018 at 02:39 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clif Owen
Well...after reading the comments; there is a little more to add...,..
.....but I'm the dummy that wouldn't let the judge my 2nd tree because I didn't see the coon he swore he saw......

---

"And now the rest of the story"........ Sounds like a CNN news story.
You broke the rules when you "wouldn't let the non hunting judge plus a coon that he saw but you didnt". Where is Dave?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

Been there, sorta. Two cast members saw coon in tree my dog treed alone. Didn't say a word about it till tree shine time was over. Then told nonhunting judge they saw coon, and sure enough,coon was seen by all. Judge, just said to me, sorry thats the rules, lost that cast by 25. Buncha bigshot cheaters!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Judge broke the Rules in that case, he was not supposed to be influenced by the cast members. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

quote:

---

Originally posted by delta slough
This is a good question that has turned into a garmin discussion. WHAT IF this cast took place before the garmin took over the hunts? I agree with Rocketman55.A cast of 4 and a judge can hunt 2 hours and when it's over ask each their interpretation of the cast and you will get 5 stories.Just a part of coon hunting.Jr Steelman

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

Swamp...the dog was east of us about a quarter when the judge and handler started walking that way. We could see their lights across the floodwaters when they started shining due north of us. There was no doubt about him moving.
Now back to the judge not plussing the coon that Bill treed...I'm pretty sure what the judge saw was a squirrel nest. It for sure wasn't a coon and I didn't want to win like that. On the other hand, the dog that did win me-tooed on 2 coons and did a poor job of that. He treed about 3 to 4 minutes late. That made twice I lost in the same manner. My dog treed one and another dog treed one with a dog backing both and beating us.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location:
Posts: 930

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Are you saying that if I tree my dog deep and she shuts up and then starts treeing again and I can see on my Garmin that she has moved over; I absolutely am not allowed to tell the judge to minus her and retree her? And if I do the judge can not minus her because that would be against the rules?
Oh my goodness, are you saying that I am not allowed to be honest and do the right thing because it is "against the rules"? I bet you were an excellant lawyer/handler. I bet that you never had a question overturned or a panel rule against you.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Swamp, if you had Dave to argue for you, then you would have won. I have had a bunch of panel's rule against me. And I always thought that I was right or I wouldn't have questioned it and taken it to a panel. Almost everyone has a "panel story". I had a UKC panel rule against me in a Super Slam and I was 100% right. It cost me $800.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

You should of had me represent you, youh would not have lost 800.00 but it would have cost more than that [ I am not cheap.lol. ], but you could have said you won with a redbone and that is priceless. Lol. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Dave, I had my partner, Jared to argue for me but he wasn't any good. He would make a terrible lawyer. I needed you. When I initially tried to question the call, the non hunting judge told me to shut up or he would scratch me, So I shut up. Then later he said that I didn't question the call because I shut up. So the panel said that they couldn't rule on it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged