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MIKE CARDER
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greenville, Ky
Posts: 4139

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey

My goal is to supply the person who gets a pup from me one that will bring it genetics to the table and make it easy for that person to train. A pup that excites the person and gives the person the feeling it has something to work with. Unfortunately the environment side usually kicks in about then and like mentioned. A lot of the pups don't get a chance. I am also learning that these dogs even though you think they should be, are not suited for all locations and all people. Some young dogs go to several places before someone figures out how to put the polish on them and make them shine.

You talk about people being able to put the polish on and make it shine. I have never seen anyone like my dad that could read a hound and know how to train one. He had so many training techniques. I can remember him saying , " that hound wants to please you" or that hound just hates a coon, or that hound needs only hunted by himself, that hound needs help." And be right every time. He culled a lot and held on to some that just needed more time. I can remember a lot of times getting in the truck after hunting with someone and saying I want that hound. I would say WHY?. He would just laugh and say you'll see. But then again he would tell you, you need to take that one out of the gene pool. A lot of dogs have been ruined by trainers. Heck I have done it.

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11-22-2016 01:45 PM

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Mike I liked what you said about your Dad. That ability is what separates people who own hounds.

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11-22-2016 02:13 PM

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ssgied
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 667

IMO everything is objective. Your average is my outstanding. I am trying to maintain certain traits within certain bloodlines and only raise pups when I need them. It has been my experience that if you raise a litter of 8 and keep them all, hunt them all the same, 4 will make MY average coon hound, 3 will take a short walk, and 1 MIGHT have what I am looking for. They all don't make it, no matter where they come from. Again everything is objective. I know hard hunters that are very good dog men that would love to have a few that have taken that short walk. I hunt with a group of pleasure hunters that are very hard to please and terribly honest about theirs and mine. They don't show up at the hunts often, but when they do they are packing a dog.
The numbers in the magazine are just numbers. Too many uncontrollable variables to be more than just numbers. Just my opinion.

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11-22-2016 03:04 PM

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RedScorpion
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Northern Tier
Posts: 200

OK, let's say that the percentage of decent dogs in a litter is not 10-20% and say it is more like 50-60%. That is still not success in my book. The bar is set way too low.

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11-22-2016 05:39 PM

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Bruce I was just using the few mentioned as a reference. And you're not just breeding the bitch to breed her. You have a vision, might not be as in-depth as some others. But none the less a vision. We as houndsmen should strive for better. We should strive to have a better dog than what we currently have. Just like the houndsmen of old did. They bred for traits. They sure didn't do it for money.

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11-22-2016 08:19 PM

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MIKE CARDER
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greenville, Ky
Posts: 4139

Titles

quote:
Originally posted by RedScorpion
OK, let's say that the percentage of decent dogs in a litter is not 10-20% and say it is more like 50-60%. That is still not success in my book. The bar is set way too low.

How many litters has anyone seen where each pup earned a hunting title. I seen a litter of beagles once out of a sire named Fire River Michael and WhiteRiver Lulu. All were hbch and bench champions. How many coonhounds have done it.

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11-22-2016 10:09 PM

Larry Atherton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Re: Titles

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
How many litters has anyone seen where each pup earned a hunting title. I seen a litter of beagles once out of a sire named Fire River Michael and WhiteRiver Lulu. All were hbch and bench champions. How many coonhounds have done it.

I believe the Crocker's Quick Flash and White Trash litter are all titled.

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11-22-2016 10:16 PM

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Chris Snyder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Mike I liked what you said about your Dad. That ability is what separates people who own hounds.

Agree with this 100%

There is a big difference between a, "dog man" who knows how to read a hound and put it in the situation it deserves to meet its fullest potential, and a competition hunter who just wants to win...doesn't care with what.

Nothing against either, but some of your most successful comp hunters couldn't train a dog if they tried. Just isn't their focus.

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11-23-2016 02:24 AM

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MIKE CARDER
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greenville, Ky
Posts: 4139

Trainable

My dad always said that the Finley River line was the easiest to train. Had several out of niteheat that were trainable. But Finley River were quick to learn.

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11-23-2016 03:35 AM

firebird
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 338

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
They can say want they want but the ukc reproducers list is why there is a problem with accuracy in our hounds. A hound that throws a high percentage of tree dogs makes it easy for the overall public to be able to win a few cast. I've heard people say the $$$ hunts are the problem but I disagree. as long as the titles are easy to get then we set our standards to low in the breeding pen To many titles are earned in people's back yard. Most people that coonhunt and breed have no clue as to what you need to have an Elite compitition hound.

UKC reproducers list could be a problem for ignorant or uneducated people. It's just a statistic collected by one group that is influenced by many many factors. It should never be looked at as a 'standard'. That being said I can imagine it does get used that way.

No smart person would breed for THEIR OWN lines if they were getting a 10 to 20% success rate it's a waste of time and money. And I think if you talked to some of the real well known guys that have been successful for many decades they will tell you that.

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11-24-2016 12:31 AM

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firebird
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 338

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
They can say want they want but the ukc reproducers list is why there is a problem with accuracy in our hounds. A hound that throws a high percentage of tree dogs makes it easy for the overall public to be able to win a few cast. I've heard people say the $$$ hunts are the problem but I disagree. as long as the titles are easy to get then we set our standards to low in the breeding pen To many titles are earned in people's back yard. Most people that coonhunt and breed have no clue as to what you need to have an Elite compitition hound.

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11-24-2016 12:31 AM

Doug Adams
Banned

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: mechanicsburg, Oh
Posts: 1184

Lack of hunting IMO.. people buy a well bred pup and expect it to be a winner after 3 or 4 hunts.. when that doesn't happen they begin to trade or sell to someone else that won't ever give it a chance.. before you know it the pup is 4 years old and been hunted about 25 times.. I've seen this happen with many, many pups.. very few guys hunt enough to own a young dog..

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11-24-2016 12:40 AM