Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by elvis
you know as well as I do the countdown is just another handler tool to only take a quarter when the situation call for it.

---

Handlers don't have enough "tools" in UKC hunts. That is why the Pro handlers want to change the rules. They want to have more "tools" that they can use.
Jack, you are right. I can't compete with those young Pro's anymore. I got beat by one just last week that was using his "tools". They are just too quick and too smart for me.
Should we change our rules just to attract those youngsters to the sport or should they just learn to play by the rules that we have had for so many years. I see where there must be more than 200 old guys that have signed up their old Gr Nt Ch's to hunt at Autumn Oaks. That doesn't sound to me like we need a bunch of youngsters.
In theory all of the rule changes sound great. But in practice it is a different story. Do we all want to have to become lawyers just to be able to coonhunt?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 08-26-2016 at 04:11 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Let's face it there's a lot of young guys out there that won't hunt Ukc without the count down. The post on this thread so far are by the older crowd and some that don't even hunt anymore. What's gonna happen to Ukc when we're done.

Some of the people that don't want the change know they can't win with a count down.

---

When "we're" done, those young guys will be older and tired of that other kennel club and be ready to start hunting in UKC hunts.

And some of those guys that want the change know that they can't win without it.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Jefferson,Tx
Posts: 1108

Richard, what's your definition of a "Pro handler"???

JMO, A good dog makes a handler look good, most of your BIG winning handlers ain't crooks, they are the folks that spends more time preparing there dog to win, I have drew several of the best handlers in the country this year & can't think of 1 that tried to use rule after rule trying to get people "out of the way"

__________________
Tony Dominguez
407 E. Clarksville st
Jefferson, Tx 75657
903-650-4495 call/txt anytime
Banshee Coon Squaller
Eukanuba Dog food



Redbone:
All Grand Outlaw G-Man
GRNITECH
GRAND SHOW CH
CHKC GRCH (all time $ leader)
PKC PLATINUM CH (all time $ leader)
2016 RESERVE FALL SUPER STAKE CH (only redbone to ever make the final 4)


Grnitech PKC CH Night Stalkin roxie
2018 top 16 PKC redbone breed
2018 Top 16 PA state race
2019 National Redbone days Champion


Walker:
UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Frost Bite Zoey

UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Dirty Little Tramp
Russ Myer hunt winner $20,000
Final 4 PKC super stakes


Past:
GOLD CH GRCH GRNITECH Classy Cali
GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Outlaw Jack
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Apache Man
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Famous Outlaw Ann
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Tree Burning Moses

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1723

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
Richard, what's your definition of a "Pro handler"???

JMO, A good dog makes a handler look good, most of your BIG winning handlers ain't crooks, they are the folks that spends more time preparing there dog to win, I have drew several of the best handlers in the country this year & can't think of 1 that tried to use rule after rule trying to get people "out of the way"

---

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JACK BINGHAM
MOSQUITO CREEK REDBONES
641-750-4457

A screw up on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.



HOME OF

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GRNITE CH Mosquito Creek Hank 2020 and 2022 top 100

Platinum CH GRNITE CH Jersey Girl 2020 Top 100



R.I.P.
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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1723

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
Richard, what's your definition of a "Pro handler"???

JMO, A good dog makes a handler look good, most of your BIG winning handlers ain't crooks, they are the folks that spends more time preparing there dog to win, I have drew several of the best handlers in the country this year & can't think of 1 that tried to use rule after rule trying to get people "out of the way"

---

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JACK BINGHAM
MOSQUITO CREEK REDBONES
641-750-4457

A screw up on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.



HOME OF

GRNitech PKC Platinum CH PR Mosquito Creek Danno's Buggs 2018 American Redbone Champion. 2019 World Champion Female. 2020 PURINA NATIONALS CH.

GRNITE CH Mosquito Creek Hank 2020 and 2022 top 100

Platinum CH GRNITE CH Jersey Girl 2020 Top 100



R.I.P.
GRNitech PKC CH GRCH Awesome Mosquito Crk. Lick 2016 World Champion Redbone Female


Look us up on Facebook: Mosquito Creek Redbones

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
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X3

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X4

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........Home of..........
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, I never said nor implied that a smart Pro handler that knows and uses all of his tools is a crook. I never said that being a good Professional handler was a bad thing. If you are one then by all means be proud of it. And they have a whole Professional Kennel Club with their own hunts just for you. But why do you want to come over and change the UKC rules? That is what I said.

Tony, I looked up the definition of a Professional Handler in the dictionary and they had your picture posted. On that other website, every time it has your name it says, "handler earnings...$16,000...right below it.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 08-26-2016 at 04:29 PM

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

IF YOU EARN MONEY YOU ARE A PRO
IF YOU DO NO EARN MONEY YOU ARE A AMATURE JMO

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NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
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4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

Maybe I missed it, but if the countdown happens to be installed, will first tree go to 100 instead of 125?

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Jefferson,Tx
Posts: 1108

I don't want to come over & change the rules, I'd just rather see the better dog get the credit on coons instead of a dog that backed 4 min late getting as much credit as the dog that treed the coon. It's changing the rules to benefit a solid consistent coondog that trees coons the fastest... I feel leaving the tree rule at 125 would be the best!

As far as a "Pro Handler" I'm not that, I just love the sport of coon huntin & enjoy what I do

__________________
Tony Dominguez
407 E. Clarksville st
Jefferson, Tx 75657
903-650-4495 call/txt anytime
Banshee Coon Squaller
Eukanuba Dog food



Redbone:
All Grand Outlaw G-Man
GRNITECH
GRAND SHOW CH
CHKC GRCH (all time $ leader)
PKC PLATINUM CH (all time $ leader)
2016 RESERVE FALL SUPER STAKE CH (only redbone to ever make the final 4)


Grnitech PKC CH Night Stalkin roxie
2018 top 16 PKC redbone breed
2018 Top 16 PA state race
2019 National Redbone days Champion


Walker:
UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Frost Bite Zoey

UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Dirty Little Tramp
Russ Myer hunt winner $20,000
Final 4 PKC super stakes


Past:
GOLD CH GRCH GRNITECH Classy Cali
GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Outlaw Jack
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Apache Man
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Famous Outlaw Ann
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Tree Burning Moses

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

$16,000 in earnings, I bet that you really love it. You are either awfully good or have an awfully good dog. Be careful what you say. If Doc finds out how much you "love the sport" he might cut your pay.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Jefferson,Tx
Posts: 1108

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
$16,000 in earnings, I bet that you really love it. You are either awfully good or have an awfully good dog. Be careful what you say. If Doc finds out how much you "love the sport" he might cut your pay.

---

__________________
Tony Dominguez
407 E. Clarksville st
Jefferson, Tx 75657
903-650-4495 call/txt anytime
Banshee Coon Squaller
Eukanuba Dog food



Redbone:
All Grand Outlaw G-Man
GRNITECH
GRAND SHOW CH
CHKC GRCH (all time $ leader)
PKC PLATINUM CH (all time $ leader)
2016 RESERVE FALL SUPER STAKE CH (only redbone to ever make the final 4)


Grnitech PKC CH Night Stalkin roxie
2018 top 16 PKC redbone breed
2018 Top 16 PA state race
2019 National Redbone days Champion


Walker:
UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Frost Bite Zoey

UKC Dual Grand, PKC Silver Ch, CHKC Champion
Dirty Little Tramp
Russ Myer hunt winner $20,000
Final 4 PKC super stakes


Past:
GOLD CH GRCH GRNITECH Classy Cali
GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Outlaw Jack
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Apache Man
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Famous Outlaw Ann
CH GRNITECH 'PR' Tree Burning Moses

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

We need more like him that are passionate about what they love.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

If a dog trees 4 min after another dog and the dog that trees first gets 125 and the dog 4 min later gets 75 isn't the dog treed first getting rewarded for being first Already ?
And in thin coon one dog gos left one goes right the one that goes left ambushes and trees only coon in area at 700 dog right comes checks and trees after 4 min shut out on strike and would only get 25 tree for just plan old bad luck ?
Ukc gives the dog getting first tree a big bonus for treeing first already why do we need a rule to penalize the other dogs even more ?
Seems if I have a jelouse type independent dog hunting in thin coon this would be to my benefit but it won't change a thing if I got a good old first and first coon treer that will cover when needed in a area it can tree two or three coon in a 2 hr hunt
Just some questions I have
I'm on the fence on this one

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

Mark, us thin coon country are the arm pit of the coon hunting realm, nobody cares about us but thanks anyhow. 😆

I guess that was also why I was curious about if the rule passes will first tree go to 100. If it's one of the other, I'm more in favor of keeping it as is, first tree already gets a 50 point boost, so then with a cover dog beating a man you're only left trying to alter strike rules for babblers and it appears that's on the table as well.

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kenbridge,va
Posts: 3045

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
Richard, what's your definition of a "Pro handler"???

JMO, A good dog makes a handler look good, most of your BIG winning handlers ain't crooks, they are the folks that spends more time preparing there dog to win, I have drew several of the best handlers in the country this year & can't think of 1 that tried to use rule after rule trying to get people "out of the way"

---

Dont let brother richard fool you..I have seen him at enough super stake championships that a pick up truck shouldnt hold all his winnings

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www.valleycreekhunting.com

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kenbridge,va
Posts: 3045

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
He puts a lot of $ in the sport & loves to promote his dog but I can assure you I don't get a steady paycheck 😉

---

Tony if you dont get a steady paycheck you need to cut the doc off ..Keeping dogs in shape fed and watered and ready to travel at the drop of a hat should command a premium salary

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam Wingler
Mark, us thin coon country are the arm pit of the coon hunting realm, nobody cares about us but thanks anyhow. 😆

I guess that was also why I was curious about if the rule passes will first tree go to 100. If it's one of the other, I'm more in favor of keeping it as is, first tree already gets a 50 point boost, so then with a cover dog beating a man you're only left trying to alter strike rules for babblers and it appears that's on the table as well.

---

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

quote:

---

Originally posted by mmarshall
If a dog trees 4 min after another dog and the dog that trees first gets 125 and the dog 4 min later gets 75 isn't the dog treed first getting rewarded for being first Already ?
And in thin coon one dog gos left one goes right the one that goes left ambushes and trees only coon in area at 700 dog right comes checks and trees after 4 min shut out on strike and would only get 25 tree for just plan old bad luck ?
Ukc gives the dog getting first tree a big bonus for treeing first already why do we need a rule to penalize the other dogs even more ?
Seems if I have a jelouse type independent dog hunting in thin coon this would be to my benefit but it won't change a thing if I got a good old first and first coon treer that will cover when needed in a area it can tree two or three coon in a 2 hr hunt
Just some questions I have
I'm on the fence on this one

---

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Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim MACHA
`Honestly, I haven't seen that many 4 minute dogs. Usually, the handler is keeping his hands in his pockets for 4 minutes.

---

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Last edited by mmarshall on 08-26-2016 at 09:28 PM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

quote:

---

Originally posted by mmarshall
Pkc rules seem to be more set up for thinner coon area and a less then idea weather conditions imo

---

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1723

Richard I see that you have $8600 by your name. You must be one of those pro handlers that your talking about.

__________________
JACK BINGHAM
MOSQUITO CREEK REDBONES
641-750-4457

A screw up on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.



HOME OF

GRNitech PKC Platinum CH PR Mosquito Creek Danno's Buggs 2018 American Redbone Champion. 2019 World Champion Female. 2020 PURINA NATIONALS CH.

GRNITE CH Mosquito Creek Hank 2020 and 2022 top 100

Platinum CH GRNITE CH Jersey Girl 2020 Top 100



R.I.P.
GRNitech PKC CH GRCH Awesome Mosquito Crk. Lick 2016 World Champion Redbone Female


Look us up on Facebook: Mosquito Creek Redbones

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: Russellville, AR
Posts: 95

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Let's face it there's a lot of young guys out there that won't hunt Ukc without the count down. The post on this thread so far are by the older crowd and some that don't even hunt anymore. What's gonna happen to Ukc when we're done.

Elvis I have been doing alright in the hunts but mostly in the other KC with a count down.

Richard what would be wrong with having some big time handlers as you call them to come over to UKC are you scared of them.

No one yet has been able to tell me why there dog deserves 75 after covering at 4:55. If there covering that late you need to do more work at home.

This is the kinda thinking that keeps the redbone breed suppressed instead of moving it forward. Don't expect different results when you do the same thing over and over.

It's hard to beat a dog that gets a piece of everything at 75 for covering everything instead of doing its own thing.

Some of the people that don't want the change know they can't win with a count down.

---

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Richard I see that you have $8600 by your name. You must be one of those pro handlers that your talking about.

---

I used to be when I could keep up. As I said, I have nothing against Pro handlers and I greatly admire a bunch of them. I hunt as many or more local PKC hunts as I do UKC.

What the rule changes boil down to is.......
If you believe that a dog should be completely 100% independant and refuse to back another dog then you should be for the squall and tree countdown rule changes. If you think that a dog should tree their own or be first but it is allright to back another dog also when they get beat then you should be against the rule changes. It is as simple as that. Is it allright for dogs to pack or do we need to breed and or train them to be 100% independant? Without the tree countdown, the dog that trees one by itself and one with another dog can beat Mr Independant.

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