Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1529

This is a great topic. I'm a big supporter of track dogs, our sport has put way too much emphasis on tree in my opinion.

Not to sidetrack but Pastor Mike mentioned something I've often thought about, and that's if you could "train" a dog to prefer certain types of tracks. I think it's possible. But I can't prove it. But think about how often someone labels one a "bucket" dog. Obviously that's one that can only run a hot one under 50 yards away. Still yet, through lack of exposure, the "trainer" never allowed that hound to stretch his brain on tougher tracks or to get deeper. That's a worthless one to me, but most likely the trainers fault and possibly nothing more.

Anyhow, likely a discussion for another thread.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

Tracking ability is the key trait to pay attention to. Track dogs don't slick tree very much. Track dogs don't get bogged down and stand on their heads on an old track.

As far as I know there no lines that consistently throw high degree of track dogs. But when you get one you will know the difference.
NiteCH Sawblade Red Reckon was a track dog So was her Mother "Fiddle " and so was Fiddles Sire "Red Sage". Those three dogs could run a cold one like a hot one. Just my opinion tho. When I bred into the Yellow River dogs I kept the track speed, when we added Hoffemeister to that we got a lot more balance but lost a little of the finish line speed. Took them longer to settle in . No harm in that just stating what I saw from the lines I used. I like both lines and will continue to use them.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 1735

So the key is evaluating who those good track dogs are, which was the original intent of posting this thread So far I've seen T-Top, Fiddle, Hoffmister and Wrongway Ace/Kate blood mentioned, are their any else??

Who are they?

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
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Location: Troy Iowa
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Corey/UKC
So the key is evaluating who those good track dogs are, which was the original intent of posting this thread So far I've seen T-Top, Fiddle, Hoffmister and Wrongway Ace/Kate blood mentioned, are their any else??

Who are they?

---

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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 78

quote:

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Originally posted by Sawblade
As far as I know there no lines that consistently throw high degree of track dogs. But when you get one you will know the difference.
NiteCH Sawblade Red Reckon was a track dog So was her Mother "Fiddle " and so was Fiddles Sire "Red Sage". Those three dogs could run a cold one like a hot one.

---

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Dan Delp

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Location: Central PA
Posts: 78

quote:

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Originally posted by RedScorpion
That cross with Bree and Woody really looked good on paper for tracking and overall coon treeing ability. What happened was a real shame.

---

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Dan Delp

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that are exceptional track dogs, both are t-top, hoffmiester bred

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

Just curious how you guys that coon hunt gauge the nose on a dog when they are fee cast and pick the tracks they want to run?

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Jun 2003
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When you go to a Nite hunt in Feb. with 4 inches of snow on the ground and it's a full moon. Your dog strikes and runs a track down a creek for 600 yards while none of the other dogs open up. Your dogs trees and the rest back her up and there is a big old boar coon curled up outside a den and your dog does it a second time in the same hunt with same results , well then ..You have a track dog.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

I would say so. I'm running cats mostly that time of year but sometimes coon hunt. Never in a competition though. Tough to tell a lot of difference when the dogs are all sons or gand daughters or nieces etc., they are all pretty similar. Just curious how the rest of the world works. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Location: Radford, Virginia
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quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin Jackson
Just curious how you guys that coon hunt gauge the nose on a dog when they are fee cast and pick the tracks they want to run?

---

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Soggy Bottom Redbones


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Soggy Bottom T-Top Miss Dottie
RIP
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze HTX (Former#1 Reproducer)
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Stella
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NTCH CH Soggy Bottom Bomber's Red Wire (Pigeon- former #1 Reproducer)
NTCH GRCH Red Cedar T-Top Lexus
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Registered: Dec 2006
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Posts: 934

Makes sense Mike. How many guys do that to test a dogs cold trailing ability? Corey, are you asking which dogs have the fastest track speed or which dogs are the best track dogs? I've seen some that are fast on a hot track but don't cold trail real good and I've seen some that can really grub a cold track and turn it into a running track that probably aren't as fast as some but plenty fast to catch game.

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 383

I have mostly hunted with Fireball lines. Just recently got some of the Rabbel and Sawblade blood. There was a post on here a couple weeks ago talking about Wrong Way Billy I think. (Maybe it was Wrong Way blood not for sure) I am hunting a young Male that is off Goshen Moe that on a consistent basis is a first strike dog. I know that dosen't make anything a track dog. However he is young and I have seen him be opening and moving a track and other dog be right there with him not saying a word. Then after he moves out a little they go to opening behind him. Moe was the same way. Seen him tree Coons that other dogs never even opened on. I am not the historical Redbone history buff like many others and I can't tell you a lot about B3 track speed or nose. Only seen him go once. He was off the Meg female. Moe was Trixie. Can't tell you much about either of those females. What I can tell you is if you read what was posted about the Wrong way Blood going back to Billy. Moe was a whole lot like what they said. Quick to strike, fast on track, and accurate. I have no idea what the Trixie female was that was bred to Banjo. I do honestly believe the female puts more in a cross than the male. So I see simalarities in this young dog off Moe. The same simalarities his Daddy had. Maybe Trixie was the answer. I haven't a clue but I like what has happened. I like this post. A lot of good info. Thank you for starting Corey.

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Location: PA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin Jackson
Makes sense Mike. How many guys do that to test a dogs cold trailing ability? Corey, are you asking which dogs have the fastest track speed or which dogs are the best track dogs? I've seen some that are fast on a hot track but don't cold trail real good and I've seen some that can really grub a cold track and turn it into a running track that probably aren't as fast as some but plenty fast to catch game.

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I simply want to know who the best track dogs are. There are lots of specifics we can go into with this subject (speed, hot/cold nose , etc) but there are lots of good and bad track dogs with these sorts of "traits". Im looking more at the mechanics then the style so to speak

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Corey Gruver
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Willow Rachael and Storm

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Location: VIROQUA, WISCONSIN
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I have a couple out of Red Fever Redbones that i think are track dogs. But one is also out of some T Top lines. I have went out in Jan with frost in tracks and they have treed. Some on the outside some in dens.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim MACHA
I really don't know how to classify Griz. Seldom does he strike and run real cold tracks. But, he almost always finishes what he starts.

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I remember one night when Jeff Murphy took us pleasure hunting the night before ARCA days in Olney a couple of years ago. Grizz put a coon on the end of a track that the other dogs could not find. They were "trailing" all around when Grizz came treed with the coon.

Corey, you must be planning on moving down South. Either that or you plan on doing a lot of pleasure hunting. You don't need a real "track" dog to win hunts up there. You need a "tree" dog.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I remember one night when Jeff Murphy took us pleasure hunting the night before ARCA days in Olney a couple of years ago. Grizz put a coon on the end of a track that the other dogs could not find. They were "trailing" all around when Grizz came treed with the coon.

Corey, you must be planning on moving down South. Either that or you plan on doing a lot of pleasure hunting. You don't need a real "track" dog to win hunts up there. You need a "tree" dog.

---

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Location: PA
Posts: 1735

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Corey, you must be planning on moving down South. Either that or you plan on doing a lot of pleasure hunting. You don't need a real "track" dog to win hunts up there. You need a "tree" dog.

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I'm defiantly planning "something" Richard. I'm always trying to plan ahead

Probably not heading South anytime soon. Unless you count ARCA Days And as far as pleasure hunting goes, hide season is never to far away! That is my favorite time of the year. Regardless of what fur prices are, I love skinnin', fleshin' and stretchin'! A good track dog that can tree coon will keep me in furs for at least 8-10 years, right??

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Greenville, PA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Corey/UKC
........ A good track dog that can tree coon........

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That and a loud clear bawl mouth is a pleasure hunter's dream.

Brent, I wonder what I would get if I crossed that Fireball blood with my T-Top/Rusty Red blood? But hasn't someone already tried that with the Steve-O X Chilli crosses?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 06-06-2016 at 03:28 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Adam Wingler
Not to sidetrack but Pastor Mike mentioned something I've often thought about, and that's if you could "train" a dog to prefer certain types of tracks. I think it's possible.

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I do too. You just walk in and "send" them on whenever they bog down on a track. But do you want to? Or do you want to let them learn how to work those bad tracks? I think it depends on the coon population where you hunt. Up North they can go on and find another track. Around here that might be the only track so they better learn how to work it. They have to be able to work a bad track or have enough "tree" to pick their best hope and sit down. They have to do one or the other, they can't just stand on their head for an hour. It takes some experience.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1114

I believe Ripsaw to be a great track dog that passes it on to his pups,good nose to move a hot or cold track and get treed
just my opion

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George Steffes
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NT CH PR Southern Soggy Bottom Tilly { Gr ChGrNtCh Pr Ragged Ridge Ripsaw X Gr NT Ch Ragged Ridge Toadie }
CH Nt. Ch.PR Wandering Red & RR Bucksaw (GRCHGRNTCH Raged Ridge Rip X Grand Nite Raged Ridge Toadie )
GRNTCH.GRCh.PR Steffes' Whizz Bang[GRNTCH Big Walnut BooneXGRNTCH Raged Ridge Toadie]
GRCH.Wandering Red Pepper
GRCH.Wandering Red Honeys Sweety Pie

RIP
GR.NT.CH.GR.CH.PR Steffes wandering Red Tinkerbell {GRCHGRNTCH Raged Ridge RipsawXGRNTCH Ragged Ridge Toadie]

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Registered: Aug 2004
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I have not seen anyone mention the Ragged Ridge dogs What about them?

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1867

Best track dog I've ever hunted with was Dual Grand Champion Outlaw Red Moon. He was a legit cold nose track driving machine that didn't stand around boo hooing on a track. He was fun to watch on those frosted nights and on snow. I remember a few nights he drove tracks away from other dogs across plowed frozen fields or fields with annhydrous spray on them while the rest of the cast said nothing until they got in to the woods. His littermate Shock was a good one too but didn't develop the track speed Moon had until about 3. They were out of the Timber Jack x Outlaw Jessie cross. Timber Jack's mom was the same way and the father of Jessie, Red Oak Mike, was a good track dog too.

Many of the early Timber Chopper dogs were tight mouthed but there were a few that were fast strike dogs and really good cold nosed track dogs. Timber Jack wasn't a great track dog until he got to be 5-6 years of age. I saw him take many tracks that other dogs couldn't smell and drove it like he was on a hot track. He didn't like spending much time in one place so he drifted a lot on tracks and ran to catch.

The only other dog I hunted with in this breed that had that kind of track driving ability was Gr.Nt.Ch. Smokey Mountain Brandy. He ran a cold track about the same speed as a hot track. Hard to beat on a bad track and tough nights.

My idea of a good track dog and other's in this breed is probably different. I can't stand a dog that spends much time in one area or a dog that straddles a track all the way to a tree. It's hard to win today with that style of dog. He better be able to get his head off the ground and figure out where that coon is and fast.

That Brandy II female I had was about as cold nosed as I would want. But she didn't spend much time trying to work out a bad track. She was a tree shopper and she spent more time looking up than looking down. One night in the WI State Championship she treed a coon about 100 yards in front of us on a cold fall night and there were 3 other Purina dogs milling around the tree and area when we got in to the tree. The guy that was leading the Purina Points came up to me and said, that is about as impressive of a job I've ever seen out of a dog. Theresa Key was our judge that night and she fell in love with her after that one. She won many big hunts by going past a tree that others got hung up on and going on and treeing the coon. That's how she won American Redbone Days against Spare Time Spanky, and 2 other big time Purina Dogs two nights in a row.

That is why I love Redbones and this bloodline. Max Hunter was a hide hunter first and a competition hunter second. Who knew that coon treers would actually be able to win against the best out there. You ask any big time PKC winner and they will tell you that the ones that win the big hunts are the ones who tree the most real live coon in 2 hours and stay out of trouble. It's not rocket science.

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Current:

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Cat Scratch Fever
(Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Aftershock x Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Breanna)
2016 Finished to PKC Ch. in one week!

Dual Grand Champion CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Glissens JJ Jr. x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Billy Jean)
4 Generations of All Grand Nite Champions!
Timber Jack 3X and Timber Chopper over 30X
2019 Southern National Redbone Days Champion
2016 National Grand Nite Champion Redbone
2016 CHKC Redbone Days Champion
2016 PKC Super Stakes Reserve Champion
2016 CHKC Elite Shootout Winner - Texas
CHKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

Bodacious
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch.PKC. Gold Ch.CHKC CH. Outlaw G-Man x Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. Classy Cali)


Past:
Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. Dawns Timber Jack
1988 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner
1989 UKC World Champion Redbone
1989 Purina Outstanding Redbone Coonhound
#2 Historic Redbone Sire/ Top 20 All Breeds
American Redbone Coonhound Assoc. Hall of Fame

Gr.Nt.Ch. Bussrow Bottom Brandy II
1991 American Redbone Days Champion
1992 AKC World Champion Redbone
1992 ACHA World Champion Redbone
1992 Wisconsin State Champion
1994 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex
Produced 2 Nt. Ch. , 1 Gr.Nt.Ch. out of 2 litters and two Redbone Days Winners

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. PKC Gold Ch. Layton's Classy Cali
2012 UKC World Champion Redbone and 7th Place Overall
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 UKC World Champion Redbone Female
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - Goodsprings, AL
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Series Race - 3rd Place Overall
2016 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - New Albany, MS
2016 PKC Texas State Race Winner
2016 PKC Redbone Breed Race Winner
PKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Coffman's Smokin Red Buck
2016 UKC World Hunt 5th Place and World Champion Redbone
2016 National Redbone Days Overall Winner

Gr.Nt.Ch. Reinhart's Central Page
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Brandy II)

Gr.Nt.Ch. Too the Maxx
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Jenkins Crying Katie)
1992 National Redbone Days Champion

Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Ambraw River Rock
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Hersh's Huntin Red Kate)
1992 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex

Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle
1986 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner

Nt.Ch. Timber Mace
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack X Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle)
Mother of Gr.Nt.Ch. Babb's Hazel

Nt. Ch. Timber Shock
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Jessie)

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Squaw Mountain Goldie
(Direct Daughter of Gr.Nt.Ch.Smokey Mountain Brandy)
1990 Autumn Oaks Best of Show Winner
1988 Indiana State Champion

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What was Timber Jack like as far as tracking ability?

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