Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

You pay a $20 entry fee and 10 reg dogs show up at a UKC hunt so the winner gets $90. You are blaming the fact that people don't show up on the P/P? And you want to get $500 for winning that 10 dog hunt? I went to a UKC RQE last night and 46 dogs were there and you don't get Performance Points at an RQE. Our PKC hunts draw 8-12 dogs. Our UKC hunts draw 16-20 dogs. I don't understand your reasoning. UKC is a kennel club for average amateur hunters. PKC is for big money Pro hunters. If you are a big time Pro hunter that wants to hunt for big money, then hunt in PKC hunts. Why are you trying to change UKC hunts and programs to make them more like PKC hunts and programs? There is a place for both apples and oranges on every table. Everyone sitting at the table can choose whether they want an apple or an orange. And they can sit there and argue which tastes the best. But I have never heard an argument over whether an apple should have a peel like an orange or vice versa.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 04-03-2016 at 08:53 PM

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2961

If you think the payout is bad now, just think of all the points that don't get paid for because of dogs winning at RQE's or zone advancement!! I personally lost 3 pts. because of this in finishing Anne to GRNTCH. That left more money in pot for others to get paid from in the program & I know a lot of other points were not paid through the years for the same reason.

Personally, I would like to see it changed, so you at least could get .5 point for placing at an RQE or advancing through the zones. Thinking this would help entry #'s at events because a dog is not losing PP when placing at these events. Just my 2 cents!!! Take care, Ron.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Rutledge,TN.
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Years ago people showed up at the hunts just for good competition, and fellowship. Now you can actually win a little money. But true to the American way, people want MORE. If you started coonhunting thinking you could make some big money, you've picked the wrong sport.

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Tony Greene

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You pay a $20 entry fee and 10 reg dogs show up at a UKC hunt so the winner gets $90. You are blaming the fact that people don't show up on the P/P? And you want to get $500 for winning that 10 dog hunt? I went to a UKC RQE last night and 46 dogs were there and you don't get Performance Points at an RQE. Our PKC hunts draw 8-12 dogs. Our UKC hunts draw 16-20 dogs. I don't understand your reasoning. UKC is a kennel club for average amateur hunters. PKC is for big money Pro hunters. If you are a big time Pro hunter that wants to hunt for big money, then hunt in PKC hunts. Why are you trying to change UKC hunts and programs to make them more like PKC hunts and programs? There is a place for both apples and oranges on every table. Everyone sitting at the table can choose whether they want an apple or an orange. And they can sit there and argue which tastes the best. But I have never heard an argument over whether an apple should have a peel like an orange or vice versa.

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To me it has nothing to do with pkc or attendance or a good hot dog. Somebody is making a lot of money. My point at first it was great but it has fallen off imo.

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Nitech Cricket

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quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
I would like to see a pup program of some sort, but don't believe in an age cap. If you pay the fees you should get to participate regardless of age.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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The very first year the program paid out was a point not worth about 1100 bucks ? Anybody remember ?

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Utica, Ohio
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Be nice if someone had data or ukc could post how point values have changed over the years

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
The very first year the program paid out was a point not worth about 1100 bucks ? Anybody remember ? [/QUOTThe first years are completely irrelevant to the present program. During the intial years of the program, there was a rush of studs being enrolled, litters being paid up and very few pups were old enough to earn pups. This completely skewed the numbers just as UKC said it would. It took 5 years for the program to begin to level out. Around that time the point values began to fall below $100 per and that is when UKC capped the max per event at 2 points in an effort to keep the point values above$100. The values have stabilized over the years to the point where they are today. I think what the program is today is purty much what UKC probably envisioned when they developed it.

You can always read on this site about those wanting to win big money in UKC.
Pay money, it will increase the numbers at the hunts and bring back the GrNts. So they began to allow added purses, jackpots, etc, clubs ignore that and the numbers went down. Then they brought out the Super Slams, a one in four chance to win $850 for one, two hour cast win plus a first towards title. Most of them struggle to fill. As Richard said, there is something out there that fits most coonhunters budgets. PKC for those who want to go big, UKC for the average weekend competitor. Choices.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2767

Pretty sure it was cause I drew a 3 dog cast in a hunt with 10 reg dogs and lost it in last ten mins pretty sure that cast paid little over 1100

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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Didn't say was relevant to present day or it should be that way or anything like it. Just remembered the first year point value was insane and was wondering if anybody remembered.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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Vaguely. Larry Proux had a pup at AO either the first or second year. At that time there was no point limit and point value around $1000 per. Proux's pup won the reg hunt at AO and was one of the very few there that year that were enrolled in the program because it was so new. One point for every 10 dogs, couple hundred reg dogs, do the math. He got a very large check that will never be approached again.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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Right you are. I believe that's where the cap came from

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
There are 735 sires currently paid up. I'd love to know the number of pups that are currently eligible to earn points, I'm sure it is at least 10 times the number of sires. Go to the pups for sale boards and see how many are not PRP nominated. I don't know the number who think the program is garbage and worthless but I think it is safe to say their numbers are probably insignificant.

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Shane

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JiM
[B]Vaguely. Larry Proux had a pup at AO either the first or second year. At that time there was no point limit and point value around $1000 per. Proux's pup won the reg hunt at AO and was one of the very few there that year that were enrolled in the program"....the year was "06" second yr. of the P.P.

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Registered: May 2007
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There's several ways to add to the pot without costing anyone a lot of extra money. I went to them when you only got a yellow slip and still would, but like most folks I'd go to more for a good payout.

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Shane

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But instead of complaining about call them give the some ideas. I know they have some stuff they're are working on. I called giving a suggestion they liked it and I hope they go with it. My suggestion was you take 5$ away from every point scored and have a Performance hunt for every performance dog that has 5 UKC cast wins. This helps bring the grands to the clubs even if it's two or three and to know that you'll be eligible for a hunt that's going to pay out around 20 grand with a small entry of 200$ or less. Sounds pretty enticing doesn't it. I hope it's what they go with but they were thinking of other ideas to. Those aren't mine to share. But I think for a program to work it needs to involve the average hunter not just the guys who can go to every big hunt and get there performance points up in each breed. I hope they don't mess with breeds lets just keep it dogs straight up.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2767

I think the intention was also to be able to win the money thru club hunts. To qualify for a larger hunt thru cast wins and have to travel half way across the country to compete, don't sound any dif then the ss. I also think the female owners are the ones sellin the pups they should be putting more in the pot perhaps.

Discussing it on their website is kinda giving them our thoughts and ideas isn't it .....I don't see it as complaining

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 878

I think you're missing the point. With an opertunity like this those that aren't paying studs up and pups will be. That puts more money in the pot for everyone

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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That is just what we need, another big hunt to go to. "Big Hunts" are just like the Performance Program, the more that you have, the less interest that you have in each single one. The more dogs that you have winning Performance Points, the less money each point is worth. And the more "Big Hunts" that you have, the smaller each "Big Hunt" is. There should be a cap on "Big Hunts". In order to add one more, they should have to take one away. Just look at what you have now...Super Slams, AO, Winter Classic, State Hunts, Grand American, St Judes, Purina National Championship, Zone and World Hunt, Grand Masters, Breed Days... and that is just the UKC hunts. You also have too many PKC hunts to list and now you have several CHKC hunts. Where is it all going to end? It is no wonder that attendance is down at the local hunts. There is a "Big Hunt" somewhere every weekend. When are we supposed to do any "pleasure hunting"? The hunts are starting to compete with each other and think that they have to pay hunters to show up to their hunt. Now the hunters are starting to "expect" to be paid and getting mad if they aren't.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 04-04-2016 at 03:16 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
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It was started to try and get more dogs to the local events..

Of course the $ per point has gone down. Common sense tells you with more dogs enrolled in the program the point value has to go down.

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Registered: May 2007
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quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
The performance program needs revamped immediately.
1. Performance Dams. Every female should pay a fee and have DNA on file to raise a Performance litter. (This will add tens of thousands of dollars)
2. Double fees for Sires and pups. (This will add tens of thousands of dollars)
3. Don't send out any performance checks less than $50 to anyone. (This will add tens of thousands of dollars)

These changes will cost hunters, breeders, pup buyers, & dam owners a lil more, but should get points back over $500 in the first year.

I'll spend a lil more now for a chance to win a lot more later.

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Shane

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 878

The big hunt would be the only big money hunt UKC has and it would get more dogs involved at the local level.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

If that is what you want then there is a kennel club for that. How do their local hunts do?
Didn't UKC just start a new program because hunters were complaining that they didn't have a "big money hunt"? I think that they call it The Super Slam Series and they have their "big money hunt" in August added on to AO. How is attendance at these hunts going?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 04-04-2016 at 04:50 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 212

I guess I am not sure why the payout has to be higher? Don't cut a check less than $50 ? what about stud that only bred 1 female. They only have a few pups in and their 10% is less than $50. Of 735 studs paid up I think a good percentage stop paying. Now what way will your $ per point go.

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