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DFred
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 572

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I agree with Bruce, forget the comp hunts, they would be an invaluable training aid. Right up there with the Garmin. Of course there will always be those who refuse to correct a dog at the tree for fear they will quit treeing and those guys will be forever saddled with whatever the dog gives them but for most, they will greatly reduce the instances of a dog treeing empty with no correction.
I will buy one the very minute Conkey starts selling one for under $600 that he says is worth it.

Me too.

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02-06-2016 02:01 AM

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mike thomason
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Monticello, Georgia
Posts: 246

My son gave me one for Christmas. Its a Pulsar Quantum Thermal Imaging Scope HD19A. I've taken it to several trees with hardly any success finding a coon. The problem is the more you tilt it up the brighter the top of the tree gets. Looking out across a pasture the cows glow bright white even fresh piles of manure are white. Looking at the house you can see where heat is escaping around windows or doors. My son uses his predator hunting and loves it. Just something about tilting it upward to search the tree makes the tree top just as bright as a coon. If anyone knows how to fix this problem I would appreciate your comments.

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02-06-2016 02:47 AM

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Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by mike thomason
My son gave me one for Christmas. Its a Pulsar Quantum Thermal Imaging Scope HD19A. I've taken it to several trees with hardly any success finding a coon. The problem is the more you tilt it up the brighter the top of the tree gets. Looking out across a pasture the cows glow bright white even fresh piles of manure are white. Looking at the house you can see where heat is escaping around windows or doors. My son uses his predator hunting and loves it. Just something about tilting it upward to search the tree makes the tree top just as bright as a coon. If anyone knows how to fix this problem I would appreciate your comments.

I don't know if this is the reason for sure in this case, but a thermal camera will pick up any difference in heat. Whether body heat in the case of humans or animals, or radiant heat. Trees in the summer will absorb heat during the day and give it off at night. Stands to reason the top of the tree would be giving off the most heat.

Or it could be that your particular camera has a problem which throws my theory completely out the window. Lol.

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02-06-2016 02:59 AM

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CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Lets forget competition but why would anyone not want to know the facts about what is or is not in a dogs tree.

Bruce they ever get cheep enough where this poor hillbilly can afford I will have one of those gadgets!! good for summer time hunting young dogs when they tree! no weather any thing is there or not!! I can see it now my kin folk in KY will be wearing them around trying to spot coon and go over a cliff! lol OWELL.

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02-06-2016 03:00 AM

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mike thomason
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Monticello, Georgia
Posts: 246

Its not a camera is a scope. you may be right about the tree collecting heat in the day time and giving it off through the top at night but I've tried it after midnight and its still the same problem .

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02-06-2016 03:04 AM

Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by mike thomason
Its not a camera is a scope. you may be right about the tree collecting heat in the day time and giving it off through the top at night but I've tried it after midnight and its still the same problem .

Yeah after midnight you wouldn't think that it would act the same if that's the case. Our local fire company I'm a part of has a top notch thermal camera. Now that you raised this issue I'm gonna test it just for my own curiosity.

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02-06-2016 03:17 AM

Billy Beckham
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 1175

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Think there are a couple between $300 and $400 now that would work just fine. The $400 unit is a stand alone and doesn't need cell phone and also has a decent light on it. Could be used as a back up light.

Bruce have seen this one used in the woods yet?
I have been looking at it for a wile but not pulled the trigger on buying one until I seen it used while coonunting.

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02-06-2016 12:27 PM

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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Think there are a couple between $300 and $400 now that would work just fine. The $400 unit is a stand alone and doesn't need cell phone and also has a decent light on it. Could be used as a back up light.

You get what you pay for...this topic seems to pop up on here about every other month. I own a FLIR weaponsight and I will say, as I have before, that it is not the end all of finding a raccoon in a tree. First let me say that while they are coming down in price since I got mine, the good ones haven't come down that much...mine was like $11,000.00 but it's a mil-spec weaponsight not just a view scope. A good comparable quality view scope is still $6-7,000.00. You will not be happy at all with a 400-600 cell phone attachment. I have used one, it does not work good enough to look up trees for animals.
What you see when you look thru one of these is a blob of white heat. It could be a possum, raccoon, housecat or fisher for all you will know. It will not, contrary to what you learned from Hollywood, look thru anything. Some guys posted that you could see a coon in the den...nope, not happening. Others posted that you could see heat coming out of a den...haven't yet.
There was a thread on here about poking a coon with a stick to see if it was alive...it will definitely tell you if he is dead or alive because it shows the difference in heat.
To answer your original question Bruce, no, they are currently not legal to use in a night hunt. If they ever do get passed to use the problem will be that they guy with the most money will have the most advantage. It could be argued that this is the case now, maybe so, but not like this.

Last edited by msinc on 02-06-2016 at 02:52 PM

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02-06-2016 02:49 PM

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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

21volt wheat light head X 22 X coondog all I need I will find as many as anybody just sayen !!

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02-06-2016 02:55 PM

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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
21volt wheat light head X 22 X coondog all I need I will find as many as anybody just sayen !!

You're probably right...a thermal will "burn thru" leaves and small twigs though. If he's there it will at least show you where to look. It will also show you if he is not there.
Mine will do a snapshot and write it to a little on board hard drive. I keep saying every time this subject comes up I will take some pictures and post them so you guys can see what you would see. Cant do it tonight though, got a hunt I am going to.

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02-06-2016 02:59 PM

sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

If I knew they would help at a deceit price I would get one, most of the time around here in the summer you only have one or two little holes to shine through do to small trees about 20 feet tall

Last edited by sleepy head on 02-06-2016 at 03:49 PM

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02-06-2016 03:39 PM

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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
If I knew they would help at a deceit price I would get one, most of the time around here in the summer you only have one or two little holes to shine through do to small trees about 20 feet tall

This is exactly what I am talking about when I say you get what you pay for....a good quality view scope will in fact burn right thru small limbs and leaves to reveal an animal sitting on a bigger branch.
The summer time is really when you need a good quality device. These things see the difference in heat and it takes a good unit to see the difference between an animals fur at say 99 degrees in the summer and tree branches that were heated to very near the same temperature by the sun during the day. No big deal in the winter when ambient temps are 35 degrees...you can easily see the difference even with one of those cheap units.
Even the one I have in the summer around here has trouble immediately after the sun goes down when objects such as tree trunks or big rocks have been heated all day in the bright sun. It will still detect the difference and it gets better as the night goes on and things cool down, but you still have to get used to it and know what you are looking at.
I really believe some of you guys could be not too happy with these things especially the cheapo units in the hot summer.

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02-06-2016 04:04 PM

DRhodes
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2013
Location: Hope Arkansas
Posts: 82

http://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Ther...e/dp/B00K0PXFB6

I'd like to try this one. I've played with a small flir camera at work that's about 500 and not much bigger than my iPhone. Wish I could take it with me one night!

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02-06-2016 06:10 PM

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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

A coons body temp is around 103 degrees. I would hope an hour or so after dark trees would not be near that temp.

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02-07-2016 05:01 AM

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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:
Originally posted by joey
A coons body temp is around 103 degrees. I would hope an hour or so after dark trees would not be near that temp.

And then again you might be surprised at how much heat a fairly heavy branch, the tree trunk or even a large rock on the ground can hold after the hot summer sun has beat on it all day...it's kind of like roof shingles. How hot do you think your attic is 1 hour after the sun goes down???
A coons body temperature might be 103 but what the scope is seeing/detecting is the heat coming off the outer part of his fur, you are not reading actual core body temperature.
All that said, the better units will easily detect a few degrees. The cheaper ones will not see that kind of slight difference from very far away.

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02-07-2016 06:54 AM

bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 2117

Sounds like it would be cheap r to just buy a good hound that trees coons and if you know your dog u know if it has a coon or not, I will find most of them if they are there. If they ever really made something that really told if a coon was there or not we would have dead dogs all over the place and no one would show up at the hunts stud dogs would disappear like flies no more flavor of the month. Huh might be a good idea,

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02-07-2016 12:03 PM

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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
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quote:
Originally posted by bowling
Sounds like it would be cheap r to just buy a good hound that trees coons and if you know your dog u know if it has a coon or not, I will find most of them if they are there. If they ever really made something that really told if a coon was there or not we would have dead dogs all over the place and no one would show up at the hunts stud dogs would disappear like flies no more flavor of the month. Huh might be a good idea,

Like most "good sounding" ideas....yeah, it sounds real good. Right up to the point where it's time to go pick up one of these good cheaper hounds. Should I just run on down to the fantastic cheaper hound store and get me one???? I don't think so...if it were that easy we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Since I started this back in the late 70's the type of dog you are talking about has been somewhat rare and never cheap although you're right about one thing...they generally are cheaper than a thermal scope!!! Now just find one!!!
I don't care what you guys do, but I own and have used thermal devices for other things for quite some time. For the money and given the amount of bad info out there I just hate to see some of you guys throw it away and not get what you thought or were told you would.

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02-07-2016 02:36 PM

CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:
Originally posted by bowling
Sounds like it would be cheap r to just buy a good hound that trees coons and if you know your dog u know if it has a coon or not, I will find most of them if they are there. If they ever really made something that really told if a coon was there or not we would have dead dogs all over the place and no one would show up at the hunts stud dogs would disappear like flies no more flavor of the month. Huh might be a good idea,

GOOD point! hear people talk about a dog treeing on dens a lot! took a 8 mth old pup out about 3 wks ago it was like 15-18% he treed on 4 dens! i saw coon on 3 of 4 dens! lot of times you will see a coon even on den! if ya see a split or something to look in side. GOT to know your dogs!! and you want have to question weather one could be there or not. but a lot people buy these dogs and don't really know what the dog is doing! that's why they need other things to find out what the dog is doing! because they didn't hunt it up to point it was a coon dog! jmo

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02-07-2016 04:06 PM

CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

therminal

I would like to have one of those things tho! cause I hunt all my young dogs alone! in summer be nice when they make that first tree see what it is. falls out for some reason!! lol

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02-07-2016 04:14 PM

sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:
Originally posted by CHEWBACH
GOOD point! hear people talk about a dog treeing on dens a lot! took a 8 mth old pup out about 3 wks ago it was like 15-18% he treed on 4 dens! i saw coon on 3 of 4 dens! lot of times you will see a coon even on den! if ya see a split or something to look in side. GOT to know your dogs!! and you want have to question weather one could be there or not. but a lot people buy these dogs and don't really know what the dog is doing! that's why they need other things to find out what the dog is doing! because they didn't hunt it up to point it was a coon dog! jmo

Did this pup tree very many on the outside this season? Maybe you have posted it and I've missed it. Lol

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02-07-2016 04:20 PM

CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Did this pup tree very many on the outside this season? Maybe you have posted it and I've missed it. Lol

YES he has! I did post it on 2015 coon season! well over 100 that's prob saying it litely!! no one believes it tho!!! lol I wouldn't!!! that was all alone.

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02-07-2016 04:27 PM

Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

Sign me up, I want one.

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02-07-2016 06:27 PM

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Bruce M. Conkey
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If you think the Garmin is neat, you will love one of these. The sensitivity is far greater than I imagined was shining around the office today and I had been out of my chair for at least 10 to 15 minutes and you could see the body heat still in the seat of the chair. I have used the high dollar ones in Power Plant applications and sure didn't expect the quality this one has for $400.

I am sure as I play with it I will find some fault but right now playing in the office it is amazing.

Good news is the simplicity of using it.

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02-08-2016 03:49 PM

bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 2117

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
Like most "good sounding" ideas....yeah, it sounds real good. Right up to the point where it's time to go pick up one of these good cheaper hounds. Should I just run on down to the fantastic cheaper hound store and get me one???? I don't think so...if it were that easy we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Since I started this back in the late 70's the type of dog you are talking about has been somewhat rare and never cheap although you're right about one thing...they generally are cheaper than a thermal scope!!! Now just find one!!!
I don't care what you guys do, but I own and have used thermal devices for other things for quite some time. For the money and given the amount of bad info out there I just hate to see some of you guys throw it away and not get what you thought or were told you would.

sounds like a good one is very expensive from 3000 to 11000 and they still have problems and you are right good hounds ain't cheap but I have sold about 10 dogs on this board including the Dennis dog that just won the purina race this year plus 4 state championships and the decoy dog that is on stud dog page plus the guys that just won grand American sold them 2 dogs in last month plus many more and they will all have a big percentage of their coons and neither one of these dogs were near as high as a 3000 dollar thermal imaging device and I guarantee they wouldn't trade their dogs to two 3000 dollar thermal imaging device not saying they wouldn't be a handy devise but if you know your dog well enough all you need is a light and a good zebs squaller

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02-08-2016 04:41 PM

CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
If you think the Garmin is neat, you will love one of these. The sensitivity is far greater than I imagined was shining around the office today and I had been out of my chair for at least 10 to 15 minutes and you could see the body heat still in the seat of the chair. I have used the high dollar ones in Power Plant applications and sure didn't expect the quality this one has for $400.

I am sure as I play with it I will find some fault but right now playing in the office it is amazing.

Good news is the simplicity of using it.

BRUCE! its trying to say something to you!!! lol couldn't resist!!

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02-08-2016 04:43 PM

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