Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 791

This is about the only post that I've read lately where someone is actually trying to improve their hunting stock. You say that you are not an "official competition hunter" but I'll bet when you hunt alone with several of your dogs that you are comparing and competing them against each other. A true competition.
Sounds like you are doing what we should all be doing.
I salute your efforts.
My opinion is that most breeders that I'ved observed are not trying to improve the breed, but have found that it is far easier to produce dogs that capitalize on the weaknesses of the competition rules than it is to produce a higher level of ability.
Mental illness is a dominate trait in all mammals, thus dogs with a gimmic for winning reproduce themselves.
Thanks for your efforts!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: SE indiana
Posts: 941

^^^
Has to be at the top of the list for best posts ever.

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Chris Powell
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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by michael.magorian
I'm dead serious. I would think that a person would rather KNOW there is a coon in the tree and praise the dog for a job well done, rather than let the dog continue to tree slicks. Just my opinion anyway. Coon is in the tree praise the dog, and if there isn't a coon in the tree, don't say a word and yank it off the tree and kick out again.

I guess time is relevant only to the hunter. Would you rather have a dog tree 3 trees in 30 minutes with no idea if there were any coons, or would you rather tree one coon and know for sure?

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
You are assuming that by shining 30 minutes, you know for sure if a tree has a coon or not. But in, fact, you could shine all night and never know for sure. Most of the time, if you don't find it in 5 or 6 minutes, you won't find it in 30 but it might very well still be there. Yu really aren't gaining anything substantial by shining a tree 30 minutes and in fact, are probably going backwards in your training.

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Last edited by michael.magorian on 09-29-2015 at 05:47 PM

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Location: USA
Posts: 1650

jim I agree with young dog not doing that. have done it before and is probably counter productive for most young dogs. the very low percent of dogs I keep long term treeing a extra 30 minutes or whatever isn't gonna make or break and Mike is talking more when hunting seasoned dogs.

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Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by michael.magorian

It just goes back to differences in comp. hunters and pleasure hunters.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: sand hills
Posts: 356

quote:

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Originally posted by michael.magorian
I'm beginning to wonder how many hunters out there KNOW if there is a coon in the tree or not. I have hunted with Matt more than anyone, and I would bet money he hunts more than most replying. Not that I need to defend Matt against anyone, but he sure doesn't give a tree a once over and says, "Yep, we will give them that den." There has been many of times when I have more than given up on any kind of optimism and Matt has found the coon after 30 minutes of looking.

This discussion makes me think of the coon hunting show that was on a few years ago, and guys on it would always say, "Ya, we are going to have to circle this one. The leaves are just too thick." And they'd staring at a tree 16" in diameter.

If you KNOW your dog is honestly 50% accurate how can you brag that dog at all. I would be livid pissed if I walk a quarter to half a mile and 50% of the time it is for no reason.

Not trying to hurt any butts, but if I was wrong 50% of the time, I would probably be finding new employment as well.

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Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

I read this thread and I am still wondering exactly how some of you guys come up with the percentage....
So, just to be clear, if you go hunting and lets say over the course of 4 months time of average hunting your dogs tree up 80 trees....you see 40 coons, you see 20 hollows big enough to hold a coon and 10 trees that have enough leaves on them that there could be a coon there and 10 trees that there is slim to no chance a coon is there....what percentage are you calling this dog???? Shine the tree for 2 hours if you want to, I don't care....

50%....75%.....90%.....95%....what?????

Pretty please with a cherry on top, spare us the "if my dog only treed 80 trees in 4 months I'd have shot him, and he better be deep and alone!!!" posts, I wont be impressed. Just answer honestly please..{trying to be nice here...which I only do about once a year!!!}

Edit: Not trying to argue, not trying to judge anyone or their dog, I could care less what the rest of the worlds dog is doing...I am just trying to "get it" how folks come up with percentages of dogs treeing coons.

Last edited by msinc on 09-29-2015 at 11:44 PM

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Location: PA.
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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
I read this thread and I am still wondering exactly how some of you guys come up with the percentage....
So, just to be clear, if you go hunting and lets say over the course of 4 months time of average hunting your dogs tree up 80 trees....you see 40 coons, you see 20 hollows big enough to hold a coon and 10 trees that have enough leaves on them that there could be a coon there and 10 trees that there is slim to no chance a coon is there....what percentage are you calling this dog???? Shine the tree for 2 hours if you want to, I don't care....

50%....75%.....90%.....95%....what?????

Pretty please with a cherry on top, spare us the "if my dog only treed 80 trees in 4 months I'd have shot him, and he better be deep and alone!!!" posts, I wont be impressed. Just answer honestly please..{trying to be nice here...which I only do about once a year!!!}

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Location: Maryland
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quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
Oh they're calling that 50%

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
Okay, so, coon seen equals "dog did good"...no coon seen equals dog messed up or is lacking something {nose power, training, brains, etc.} to be considered a coondog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
Yes to an extent. I do have to admit there is some logic to this "you know I just like to pick LOL" basically the point is you can't get your numbers short term. You really need to run the numbers all year. then some think you need to be something above 50% but then there's those that actually think you should still see 80-90%.

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
Okay, so over the course of a year lets say your dog trees 200 times...you actually see 100 coons, forget everything else, dens, leaves, 150 ft. tall trees, etc. the dog is batting 50%. But they are saying that is okay or normal...I understand the logic to it now, I think.
On the one hand, I have to admit...I have known and hunted with dogs that over the long haul, we saw a high majority of coons. Much more so than with some of the other dogs I have hunted with. A good example, I know a guy right now that has a female English dog that by herself you will look at some coons. Put her with anything else, even my little Jack Daniels house dog that cant run and tree anything and this female will get real jealous, take every track backwards and tree the den.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Mines still not went to missing since last thread we had about it. Ive walked to one den tree since that thread however long ago thats been. Seems like I couldnt find one in a big leafy tree at end of that thread. All the others ive found since then. He is accurate. Just waiting on some different weather to see him go to missing like yall say he will.

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Michael Ghorley

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Mines still not went to missing since last thread we had about it. Ive walked to one den tree since that thread however long ago thats been. Seems like I couldnt find one in a big leafy tree at end of that thread. All the others ive found since then. He is accurate. Just waiting on some different weather to see him go to missing like yall say he will.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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No a different dog a bear actually got that dog a few weeks after he treed the one I posted but I still have him. He likes to gamble a good bit and is fast as lightening. Im gonna fool with him more come coon season. Ive only hunted him once since the bear got him.

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Michael Ghorley

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How many trees has this dog that never misses made since that last thread?

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quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
I know what you mean on that female, I know one that's allot like that. Then I look at my wife and think it really doesn't matter from one species to the next they're all like that LOL.
The percent thing over the whole year I have to admit almost seems intriguing to me the more I look at it but dam that's allot of paperwork. I think I'll just stick with what works for me. Tree me lots of coons in kill season, win me some hunts during comp season and I'll keep feeding ya little buddy.

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http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...eadid=928407982

Nothing complicated about it. This is how I judge a dog's accuracy. She is 78/94 in her life.

A couple of things that I have learned along the way:
1) coons are easier to find when they are there
2) a tight mouthed dog will tree more coons that can be seen
3) hunting flat patch woods are harder to spot coons in than hill country and fence rows
4) accurate dogs exceeding the 50% range do exist
5) Smart dogs catch more game
6) a good track dog catches more game and is more accurate
7) a smart dog will track fast, tree right and be more pleasureable to hunt
8) people are too prideful to admit that they are hunting tree dogs instead of coon dogs
9) I don't care what other people hunt, they are feeding it.
10) titles don't make a coon dog

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Last edited by Rowdy on 09-30-2015 at 04:59 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
You are assuming that by shining 30 minutes, you know for sure if a tree has a coon or not. But in, fact, you could shine all night and never know for sure. Most of the time, if you don't find it in 5 or 6 minutes, you won't find it in 30 but it might very well still be there. Yu really aren't gaining anything substantial by shining a tree 30 minutes and in fact, are probably going backwards in your training.

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Posts: 390

quote:

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Originally posted by Blusk25
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've shined trees for an hour before.

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Do you know how much money you could win with that dog?.................Now ask if I care.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blusk25
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've shined trees for an hour before. It's only helped my training. If I find the coon. The dog gets rewarded. If not corrected. Not verifying the coon is in the tree Your more likely to reward slick and possums. You guys must be using infrared if you can alway determine in less than six minutes.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

You got one that has them ol coon. Bout 5 min youll find em.

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Michael Ghorley

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blusk25
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've shined trees for an hour before.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Menominee, Nebraska
Posts: 875

quote:

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Originally posted by Rowdy
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...eadid=928407982

Nothing complicated about it. This is how I judge a dog's accuracy. She is 78/94 in her life.

A couple of things that I have learned along the way:
1) coons are easier to find when they are there
2) a tight mouthed dog will tree more coons that can be seen
3) hunting flat patch woods are harder to spot coons in than hill country and fence rows
4) accurate dogs exceeding the 50% range do exist
5) Smart dogs catch more game
6) a good track dog catches more game and is more accurate
7) a smart dog will track fast, tree right and be more pleasureable to hunt
8) people are too prideful to admit that they are hunting tree dogs instead of coon dogs
9) I don't care what other people hunt, they are feeding it.
10) titles don't make a coon dog

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