Registered: Mar 2013
Location: richmond ky
Posts: 636

No,no,no...i didnt call no names, any experienced houndsman knows they thousands of non performanced per every dog that is ,and then theirs bloodlines that for generations have never been comp hunted at all ...i think maybe i was a lil harsh but i do stand by the context of statement and this breed inparticular with a decent team of hunters could take a decent studdog and within a few years turn that average reproducing hound and if only looking at performanced hounds could surley make a average seem to look well above avarge

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: richmond ky
Posts: 636

I would think Lambert said truth... Alot more to it than lookin at list

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I would think that even an inexperienced houndsman would know that you can't just look at one list. I have a stud dog that I like and you won't find him on any list. You will just have to call me if you want to know how good he is.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I would think that even an inexperienced houndsman would know that you can't just look at one list. I have a stud dog that I like and you won't find him on any list. You will just have to call me if you want to know how good he is.

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OFFICIAL FIELD TESTER FOR LEMS LIGHTS

Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Yeah, but my "opinion" will probably be a lot better than anyone's that has actually hunted with him. That is the only problem with not being able to use the lists or hunt results. With any crtieria that you use, whether it be lists, hunt results or word of mouth; you have to consider the source. Sometimes you have to consider the handler also. And even if you go and hunt with a stud, he could just have a bad night. That just makes it even more complicated. So as I said, you really have to use several of the criteris all added together.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 at 05:00 PM

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

People can say a dog is a coon dog .....and you can go and hunt with it and see if that's true enough from what you see.
But nobody can honestly say their dog is a good competition dog or a proven winner .....unless the dog has been tested ...and proven to be a winner in competition. Even then, there are many different aspects to competition and a dog can earn a title by winning with very little if any actual competition.... But the dogs on the performance list for the most part got their place on the list by competing in and winning in bigger hunts with large numbers of entries which usually equates to stiffer competition. We know this because the more entries...the more points you can earn by winning at that hunt. Its kind of the same if you watch the standings in the money hunts...the dogs who win the most money and are high on the list competed in the bigger hunts with more entries and stiffer competition. I don't look at pleasure dogs because I'm into breeding and hunting competition dogs....but if I was I would have to hunt with the dog because without a history of winning ...your basically only going to hear individual opinions of what the dog is like....and I have found that those vary greatly and are often very unreliable.
With the reproducer lists, performance point lists and the money standings you have a pretty reliable and structured process that is based on accurate information and facts and it removes personal opinion from the equasion.
I know of no reliable ranking system for pleasure dogs because every measure of comparison would be based on someone's personal opinion...(usually the owner of the dog)
Whether you are a competition hunter or just a hide or pleasure hunter their are several ways to seek out dogs that interest you and if you do your homework...you can find a good one to breed to or buy a pup off of that you will probably be happy with.
Personally I use every bit of info I can get when I am looking for a dog to breed or buy a pup off of. Since I raise and train dogs for competition... Naturally I start my search using lists that represent the competition dogs who are winning the most and are showing consistent wins and the dogs who are reproducing winners. That's where I begin...but I will use many other things before I am done researching a dog....up to and usually including actually hunting with the dog and hopefully comparing it to a dog of know caliber and quality so I can get an idea of where the dog might fall on my scale of competitive coonhounds.

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, I plumb forgot all about $ earnings and Pup earnings. That is another comparison to look at. Some top hounds aren't even hunted in UKC hunts but you sure can't count them out. Does anyone ever ask a stud owner how many PKC registered pups his dog has and what their earnings are? It just keeps getting more and more and more complicated.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 08-25-2015 at 12:22 AM

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4280

Re: Agree: The lists are the tool to use.

quote:

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Originally posted by jdgher
Someday I hope more breeders read the writing on the wall and use the list's.

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__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Performance Lists, Current Reproducers List, word of mouth from pleasure hunters, researching papers/pedigrees, actually hunting with a stud, actually hunting with offspring from a stud, looking at/researching the mother of a stud.....oh my goodness.... This sure is getting to be a hard and compicated process. Whatever happened to just breeding your female to the closest male and hoping to get lucky?

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Work hard hunt harder .
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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Performance Lists, Current Reproducers List, word of mouth from pleasure hunters, researching papers/pedigrees, actually hunting with a stud, actually hunting with offspring from a stud, looking at/researching the mother of a stud.....oh my goodness.... This sure is getting to be a hard and compicated process. Whatever happened to just breeding your female to the closest male and hoping to get lucky?

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__________________
Work hard hunt harder .
9042195035

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
.... This sure is getting to be a hard and compicated process. Whatever happened to just breeding your female to the closest male and hoping to get lucky?

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I even took my own advice. I bred Gr Nt Wilma to Gr Nt Boone. I hope that I get "lucky". We will see.

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