Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

Does anyone know which one threw the most drive in there pups? I don't mean jealous drive.Like want to race to the end of the mile.I mean like block out the other dogs,and find a coon as quick as possible.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

quote:

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Originally posted by david woofter
Heck I will just take one out of both dogs. Both dogs made their mark in my opinion. Dave Woofter ( Bristol Ridge Kennels ) P.S. I am hunting one out of Zeb and two out of Jobe so I like the Uchtman bred Hounds. The reason I bred my Lou female to Ranger is he has both dogs in his Ped. Good luck with your hounds.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

Bred two different gyps to Hawk. I didn't get a top hound from either cross. Had a Nt ch from one litter that would go country on you and tree a racoon. Alone the dog would go miles to get treed. Cut him alone in January, 12 degrees, moonlight, no tracker in the 80 s. Never heard a bark but he returned 4 hrs later. We had drove miles to listen.

Chief's Joe was very similar in going hunting. Just a better coon hound. Joe was a better treedog with a better mouth.

Hawk was a top coon catcher.

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Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)


The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by coonbone
Does anyone know which one threw the most drive in there pups? I don't mean jealous drive.Like want to race to the end of the mile.I mean like block out the other dogs,and find a coon as quick as possible.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by blueticker
Bred two different gyps to Hawk. I didn't get a top hound from either cross. Had a Nt ch from one litter that would go country on you and tree a racoon. Alone the dog would go miles to get treed. Cut him alone in January, 12 degrees, moonlight, no tracker in the 80 s. Never heard a bark but he returned 4 hrs later. We had drove miles to listen.

Chief's Joe was very similar in going hunting. Just a better coon hound. Joe was a better treedog with a better mouth.

Hawk was a top coon catcher.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

chief was a good looking hound also.

It would be personal preference of traits imo, couldn't go wrong with either. only thing I cant agree with from previous post is giving hawk the nod on drifting a track but chief on lay-ups? chief dogs where track drifting machines regardless of what you hear about him. I would say they wear equal in the treeing dept. but chief dogs where faster to locate as a whole and I would say chief threw MORE of the elite type of dogs then hawk but that is just an assumption

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Posts: 1788

Coonbone this is the man that knows about Ranger. Tim Vaughn 1-660-563-3710. As far as pressure the two females that I have had that would hold the most pressure was a triple bred Hawk in 3 gen. female called Kelly that I could shoot a coon off a tree 10 yards away and she would not leave her tree. Done it many times just showing off to hunters. She produced many Gr.Nt. And Nt.Ch. dogs. The other female you could do that with was a Gr.Nt. out of Old Hussler called Sally; She was Hammer and Smokey River Bred. Dave

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Jones


chief was a good looking hound also.

It would be personal preference of traits imo, couldn't go wrong with either. only thing I cant agree with from previous post is giving hawk the nod on drifting a track but chief on lay-ups? chief dogs where track drifting machines regardless of what you hear about him. I would say they wear equal in the treeing dept. but chief dogs where faster to locate as a whole and I would say chief threw MORE of the elite type of dogs then hawk but that is just an assumption

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Tom Jones & John Carroll, I love the type of input you guys are sharing! Your input is about dogs that are now dead & gone, but honest to goodness input based on FIRST HAND experience, regardless of positive or negative perception.

In my opinion, this sort of discussion is sadly lacking with today's hounds. I would love to see this same kind of input regarding some of today's hounds, & different crosses made with them. Tell the good & the bad, the more successful crosses, less successful crosses, tendencies, etc. Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. I guess a man is best off trying to expose himself to as many experiences with as many different hounds/strains as possible, then make his own determination.

These are just some ramblings from a fat old bald headed Southwest Ohio woodlot coonhunter .... which ain't much in the big picture!

Carry on!

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Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

quote:

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Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Tom Jones & John Carroll, I love the type of input you guys are sharing! Your input is about dogs that are now dead & gone, but honest to goodness input based on FIRST HAND experience, regardless of positive or negative perception.

In my opinion, this sort of discussion is sadly lacking with today's hounds. I would love to see this same kind of input regarding some of today's hounds, & different crosses made with them. Tell the good & the bad, the more successful crosses, less successful crosses, tendencies, etc. Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. I guess a man is best off trying to expose himself to as many experiences with as many different hounds/strains as possible, then make his own determination.

These are just some ramblings from a fat old bald headed Southwest Ohio woodlot coonhunter .... which ain't much in the big picture!

Carry on!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Let me tell you one reason why Hawk and Chief made their mark...

Coon hunters who had good Blue bitches jumped them up in the back of the truck when they came in heat and unloaded them at Lonnie's and Warren's.

If you would remove the offspring of three or four females each from their numbers, neither one of them would have quite as good a percentage.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

quote:

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Originally posted by John Carroll
Let me tell you one reason why Hawk and Chief made their mark...

Coon hunters who had good Blue bitches jumped them up in the back of the truck when they came in heat and unloaded them at Lonnie's and Warren's.

If you would remove the offspring of three or four females each from their numbers, neither one of them would have quite as good a percentage.

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: West Hamlin, WV
Posts: 456

U couldn't have said it better. Most of us want to run just down the road and breed to a local dog that's free and easy and hope for the best.

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Jeffers’ Bear Creek Big Easy (GrNiteCh PLATINUM CH Walston's Big Country x NiteCh Langan’s Blue Duck)
NITECH Jeffers' Blue Izzy (GRNITECH GRCH Uchtmans Zeb x Rosson's Bell)
Jeffers' Bear Creek Big T (CH GRNITECH Goodsons Rowdy Bocephus X GRNITECH CH Koon Krossin Rambo’s Blue Gritts)

And always looking for a better one

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

quote:

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Originally posted by G. JEFFERS
U couldn't have said it better. Most of us want to run just down the road and breed to a local dog that's free and easy and hope for the best.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: SE TEXAS
Posts: 629

quote:

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Originally posted by southernthunder
Absolutely! Breed winners to winners.

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Last edited by recon on 06-27-2015 at 04:13 PM

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

quote:

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Originally posted by recon
From my understanding, Chiefs winning ability was in no way related to his reproducing ability. If it was, he would not have been much of a reproducer.

Funny thing about breeding winners though. If you haven't personally observed how those wins came, I would be cautious in using that as a deciding factor in determining breeding.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: SE TEXAS
Posts: 629

quote:

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Originally posted by coonbone
The deciding factor for me is there pups,out of different sires,or dams.

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Last edited by recon on 06-28-2015 at 12:57 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

So if Chief wasn't so outstanding in the woods, what was it that made people want to breed to him regardless? Did Warren breed several females to him initially to help establish his reputation as a dominant reproducer?

I know in looking up the pedigrees I've been able to find over the past several years of the blue dogs that have gone on to the World hunt, most of them have shown Chief at least twice in 4 generations.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

quote:

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Originally posted by calblu
So if Chief wasn't so outstanding in the woods, what was it that made people want to breed to him regardless? Did Warren breed several females to him initially to help establish his reputation as a dominant reproducer?

I know in looking up the pedigrees I've been able to find over the past several years of the blue dogs that have gone on to the World hunt, most of them have shown Chief at least twice in 4 generations.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

---

Originally posted by calblu
So if Chief wasn't so outstanding in the woods, what was it that made people want to breed to him regardless? Did Warren breed several females to him initially to help establish his reputation as a dominant reproducer?

I know in looking up the pedigrees I've been able to find over the past several years of the blue dogs that have gone on to the World hunt, most of them have shown Chief at least twice in 4 generations.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: oakvale ms
Posts: 2007

Warren told me That the first female bred to Cheif was a grade female and when the pups started treeing coons at an early age, he thought he had better take a closer look at Cheifs reproducing abilities and from there the history of a great reproducer began.---------Jack

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

chief sired his first registered litter at right around 12-13 months old I believe. he sired a dog whom at the age of 2 finished 2nd in the world hunt and a sis to him was high scoring blue female the next year (s.r. hoss and Jazz). Im sure that all the stories on chief being a below average dog was right but I cant buy all the stories. First off, there are very many pics of Warren hunting the dog up until 8-10 years old............now he had a kennel of nice hounds but he still enjoyed hunting old chief for some reason? next, people always say he was just a nitech and warren pushed dogs in the hunts (see above about siring a 2nd place over all dog when chief was only 3) and folks saying chief took 17 hunts to finish to nitech? probably true as he also had over 400 points and 9-11 cast wins in a row (been awhile since joe rember said this so cant remember exactly how many wins in a row). So he did win a lot more cast then he lost. Not gonna say he was a great dog but lets not say he was a cull as far as coondogs go (and nobody has).

this is just fyi

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Jones
chief sired his first registered litter at right around 12-13 months old I believe. he sired a dog whom at the age of 2 finished 2nd in the world hunt and a sis to him was high scoring blue female the next year (s.r. hoss and Jazz). Im sure that all the stories on chief being a below average dog was right but I cant buy all the stories. First off, there are very many pics of Warren hunting the dog up until 8-10 years old............now he had a kennel of nice hounds but he still enjoyed hunting old chief for some reason? next, people always say he was just a nitech and warren pushed dogs in the hunts (see above about siring a 2nd place over all dog when chief was only 3) and folks saying chief took 17 hunts to finish to nitech? probably true as he also had over 400 points and 9-11 cast wins in a row (been awhile since joe rember said this so cant remember exactly how many wins in a row). So he did win a lot more cast then he lost. Not gonna say he was a great dog but lets not say he was a cull as far as coondogs go (and nobody has).

this is just fyi

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rather have a consistent cast winner than a 1 hit wonder! there were more dogs in the hunts back then too which made it hard to get that 1st place win. I've heard all the stories too but always wondered why anyone would breed a dog that they didn't like the only thing we all know for sure is that he was a good reproducer that made his mark on the breed.

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2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
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2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
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2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
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5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

I never hunted with either hound but everything I am hunting and breeding has a lot of Chief in their pedigrees and sure like them. Of course there is a lot of Upson's Blue Boy II and Cl. River Diamond Jim in them as well.
I owned an own son of Chief that was too "coon crazy".
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

quote:

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Originally posted by david woofter
Coonbone this is the man that knows about Ranger. Tim Vaughn 1-660-563-3710. As far as pressure the two females that I have had that would hold the most pressure was a triple bred Hawk in 3 gen. female called Kelly that I could shoot a coon off a tree 10 yards away and she would not leave her tree. Done it many times just showing off to hunters. She produced many Gr.Nt. And Nt.Ch. dogs. The other female you could do that with was a Gr.Nt. out of Old Hussler called Sally; She was Hammer and Smokey River Bred. Dave

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