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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
[i] The rule says that the Cast votes on the scoring of the tree. But yet the Hunting judge makes the decision of a coon or off game is seen. This is irony of contradictory. The judge should make all calls even the scoring of the tree, if he can say if its coon or off game why cant he just make the call of the scoring of the tree to? Like any other call made a handler can ask for a vote. I understand this is the rule but makes no sense. [/B]


It is just the way UKC wants it done. I learned a long time ago its their ball and we play with it how they say. Even if it doesn't make sense. As for the off game the judges decisions can be questioned and voted on, but in a tie his vote carries more weight. It does not in the three situations that Jim stated.

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Yard Dog Joker
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Registered: Sep 2014
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SO you are saying if the judge and another hunter says its a possum and the other 2 hunters says its a coon, then it will be ruled a possum?

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
SO you are saying if the judge and another hunter says its a possum and the other 2 hunters says its a coon, then it will be ruled a possum?


Yes... because the judge makes the call and it takes a majority vote to overturn his call.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 06:53 PM
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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Yes. On a tie vote the judges ruling is what is written on the card, but it can still be questioned and taken back to the club. When scoring a tree it does not. Look at it this way the majority of the cast decides if there is an animal in the tree. If there is a question of it being a coon or off game the judge makes the call. If his call is questioned then for it to be over turned it would take a majority of the cast. If it is a tie it stays with the judges call.

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shorecooner
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
Posts: 313

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Yes... because the judge makes the call and it takes a majority vote to overturn his call.


I thought they would be circled in that case?

Rule 5. Circle Points

c. If half the cast votes to plus and half the cast votes to minus or circle a tree.

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by shorecooner
I thought they would be circled in that case?

Rule 5. Circle Points

c. If half the cast votes to plus and half the cast votes to minus or circle a tree.


Not circled in this case because they have all agreed their is a critter in the tree, the question then becomes is it plussed as a coon or minused as offgame.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 07:07 PM
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shorecooner
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
Posts: 313

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Not circled in this case because they have all agreed their is a critter in the tree, the question then becomes is it plussed as a coon or minused as offgame.


Scoring the tree is one of the three situations that goes directly to a cast vote with a hunting judge. In that case, half vote to minus because they think it's a possum, half vote to plus because they think it's a coon, those points should be circled... Wrong?

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by shorecooner
Scoring the tree is one of the three situations that goes directly to a cast vote with a hunting judge. In that case, half vote to minus because they think it's a possum, half vote to plus because they think it's a coon, those points should be circled... Wrong?


In this case the judge has made a ruling that it is off game so minus points go on the card and it would take a majority vote to overturn him.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 07:28 PM
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bowling41762
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Clay County-ky
Posts: 971

If it's a coon it's plused, if it's a possum it's minused so 2 vote minus to vote plus. It's circle. If this ain't the case it's a bad rule. The judge and another cast member who don't have dogs on the tree can say it's a possum and your minused. That just doesn't seem right. I always judge and look at myself as the time and score keeper. However I make all the calls and then ask if everyone agrees. If someone don't I let them know the rule I used to make a call and then ask if they want to vote on it. I also vote first on all votes since it's obvious how I vote since I made the call. Iv seen a lot of guys get a score card in there hand and think there the second coming of Jesus Christ and try to bulldoze the entire cast. I may be wrong on how I judge but i hardly ever have a complaint.

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shorecooner
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
Posts: 313

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
In this case the judge has made a ruling that it is off game so minus points go on the card and it would take a majority vote to overturn him.


I guess I'm confused... How has the judge made a ruling on scoring the tree when that is supposed to go directly to a vote? Can you tell me a rule# that supports that?

I don't mean to sound argumentative, just trying to learn.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 07:32 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

In scoreing the tree plus, minus or circle the judge is just a voteing member of the cast, but in determining wheather the animal that has been seen in the tree is a coon or offgame he makes the call, and once he makes his call it takes a majority of the cast to overturn him.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 08:06 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3466

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Being a woman, you were prolly born lost and I'm not brave enough to try and correct that.
This is the most disturbing thing I ever saw on this forum.

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Old Post 04-14-2015 10:36 PM
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Bob Hennessey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3422

quote:
Originally posted by bowling41762
If it's a coon it's plused, if it's a possum it's minused so 2 vote minus to vote plus. It's circle. If this ain't the case it's a bad rule. The judge and another cast member who don't have dogs on the tree can say it's a possum and your minused. That just doesn't seem right. I always judge and look at myself as the time and score keeper. However I make all the calls and then ask if everyone agrees. If someone don't I let them know the rule I used to make a call and then ask if they want to vote on it. I also vote first on all votes since it's obvious how I vote since I made the call. Iv seen a lot of guys get a score card in there hand and think there the second coming of Jesus Christ and try to bulldoze the entire cast. I may be wrong on how I judge but i hardly ever have a complaint.

Bad rule or good rule it makes no difference. It's the rule. Pages 63 and 64 Official rule book #2 a: The following three situations go directly to a majority of the cast vote. on1) scoring a tree (plus, minus, or circle). THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE; 1)THE DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT THE COON COULD CROSS OUT TO AN ADJOINING TREE OR SCORING MULTIPLE TREES AS ONE TREE OR; 2) WHETHER THE GAME SEEN IS COON OR OFF GAME. THE HUNTING JUDGE MAKES THOSE DECISIONS BUT THEY MAY BE QUESTIONED BY A HANDLER.
It then takes a majority of the cast to over ride the hunting judges call. 3 dog cast takes 2 votes to over ride judge. 4 dog cast takes 3 votes to over ride judge. A 2 to 2 vote stays minus if judge ruled off game not circle.

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Ky Show Girl
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Being a woman, you were prolly born lost and I'm not brave enough to try and correct that.


thanks Bob,then if you don't like the results you can put a
???? on the card and take it back to a panel.
Next question who would you listen to in the woods JIm?
guide or judge on time out for your vote?

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