Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Rockdale Texas
Posts: 440

I believe AKC has that 55 second rule. Anytime a human is used to judge something their will always be bias people. I think that you should have a non hunting judge for all cast.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Big Swamp
Posts: 216

Ya, I know this is impossible, but I agree, the old RQE's and Nt. Ch. casts were nice with a non hunting judge.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Rockdale Texas
Posts: 440

Yea I know it's not possible but it would be the only way to fix the issue.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 188

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
I hope when the auto. strike dogs from that other kc come over to hunt the slam events that some one steps up and minuses them every time. It doesnt matter if they bark every step they need minused.

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Clay County-ky
Posts: 971

To hard to find a descent hunting judge for all casts. No way you could get non hunting judges for small hunts. Just put some sort of time on a dog that strikes in the minute. Don't let any thing be based on someone's opinion alone. This just opens the door for an argument. I really don't care if it's 8 mins to open or open every minute just as long as there's some sort of concrete criteria to use to rule on a dog opening in the first minute. I can tell 90% of time if my dog is babbling or running, but I can not judge someone else's dog that I'm not familiar with. Every other scoring situation has a distinct time rule on it so why can't we put one on this.

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: FLATWOODS SOUTH GA
Posts: 76

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
Which KC is this rule in? I've hunted in 4 different KC's and never heard of this rule. Having said that I haven't keep up with the rules in AKC.

I will say I don't like the way this rule is worded. My dog usually barks once or twice as soon as she smells a coon then shuts up and figures out what the other dogs are doing as she figures out her track. If and only if no other dog is working the track she found she will start opening and go on and tree that coon. Now if another dog is working the original track she started you might not hear from her again for 4-10 minutes while she is out looking for a different track.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
Which KC is this rule in? I've hunted in 4 different KC's and never heard of this rule. Having said that I haven't keep up with the rules in AKC.

I will say I don't like the way this rule is worded. My dog usually barks once or twice as soon as she smells a coon then shuts up and figures out what the other dogs are doing as she figures out her track. If and only if no other dog is working the track she found she will start opening and go on and tree that coon. Now if another dog is working the original track she started you might not hear from her again for 4-10 minutes while she is out looking for a different track.

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: FLATWOODS SOUTH GA
Posts: 76

I MAY HAVE CAUSED A LITTLE CONFUSION. SO LET ME SEE IF I CAN CLEAR IT UP. PROBALLY WORDED IT WRONG.
IF A DOG DOES STRIKE AND TREE FIRST IN THE FIRST MINUTE. HE WILL RECIEVE 100 STRIKE POINTS AND 125 TREE POINTS IF DOG IS STRUCK AND IS FOLLOWED BY AN IMMEDIATE TREE CALL. ANY DOG THAT FOLLOWS WILL BE SCORED ACCORDINGLY WITH NORMAL PIONTS SYSTEM. THE REASON FOR THE WAY IT IS WORDED IS BECAUSE IT IS VERY POSSIBLE FOR A DOG TO TREE A COON WITHIN THE FIRST MINUTE. AND WILL BE AWARDED FOR IT. IF ALL DOGS FIND A COON AT THE SAME TIME (THIS DOES HAPPEN A LOT ESPECIALLY ON COMPTITION HUNTS BUT NOT ALL THE TIME) AND THE COON IS STILL RUNNING PAST THE FIRST MINUTE. THE SRTIKE POINTS SHOULD BE SPLIT ANYWAY. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT DOES HAPPEN. EVERYONE IS USUALLY STANDING AROUND SPLITTING SECONDS TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO STRUCK FIRST, SECOND, AND SO ON. THERE IS NO WAY TO COVER EVERY SITUATION WITH THE PERFECT RULE. JUST THE WAY AKC WORDED THE FIRST MINUTE RULE (TO ME) JUST MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER FOR A HUNTING JUDGE TO JUDGE THE DOGS IN THE SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME OF A MINUTE. TO ME CLEARS UP A LOT OF CONFUSION THAT I KNOW A LOT OF FOLKS HAS EXPERIENCED BEFORE.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
That must be AKC because I've never heard of most of that either. Now as far as your dog not opening again for 4-10 minutes until she finds another track because another dog opened on her track I would say that dog should be getting allot of minus points in any KC. At 8 min the 8 minute rule even got ya plus she quit a track.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
No she don't take a lot of minus in any KC.

In order for a dog to get minused for Quitting a track it has to do 2 things.

1. It has to quit a track AND (2) COME IN.

You can NOT minus a dog if it strikes in runs a track for any length of time and then shuts up as long as it barks again before 8 minutes has elapsed!!! In order for a dog to get minused for quitting a track it HAS to check back in.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

You are correct I did say that......as well I said "if another dog was running HER track". If the other dog is running her track that dog would be opening so the 8 couldn't be applied.

For the record I wasn't offended or upset. I have seen a lot of people try and use only parts of a rule.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
You are correct I did say that......as well I said "if another dog was running HER track". If the other dog is running her track that dog would be opening so the 8 couldn't be applied.

For the record I wasn't offended or upset. I have seen a lot of people try and use only parts of a rule.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the rules before I get to a hunt. I'm new to competition hunts. Don't blow up. I don't want to make anyone mad. I'm just trying to learn.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
I guess I need to attend a few hunts before I'll understand this.
If you strike her and she quits the track to find another she has to open within 8 minutes. Right? and if she barked 3 times you have to strike her. Right? so where are you saying that the because of the other dog has opened you would not get minus points? I'm really confused on this. The rules say
Points will be minus:
4(a)When a dog quits a trail that is being worked and comes in. Exception 5(b)
4(b)If none of the declared struck dog(s) open within 8 minutes
4(c) Dog(s) declared struck and determined to be babbling*
4(d)First offense to strike dog on or before third bark, after the first minute each time dog is released will result in those points being awarded and minused.
4(e) For calling dogs off trail
4(f)If dog is declared treed, after 5 minutes has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come into tree will be minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.

5(b) No dog to receive minus points for coming into tree after judge arrives if coon is seen and dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Ok

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sugarcreekohio
Posts: 1347

read 4=c =in rule book I can tell if a dog is babbling or if it has a track an so can anybody else and the handler knows if his dog babbles =babbling is defined ==

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

on the 5(b) they would get their strike minus

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Thanks for the help understanding the rules a little better guys. I just don't want to get to a hunt and know nothing really. I have read the rules but it looks like I need to study them more. I want to be educated on the rules not taken to town on them. If you know what I'm saying.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
Thanks for the help understanding the rules a little better guys. I just don't want to get to a hunt and know nothing really. I have read the rules but it looks like I need to study them more. I want to be educated on the rules not taken to town on them. If you know what I'm saying.

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Clay County-ky
Posts: 971

Buddy had a dog that would open up bout 75-100 yards out evetytime, then just bark here and there bout 50-75 yards apart evetytime u cut him. Until he ran across a coon and it was treed. Dead loner, he would do this if you cut him by himself. No one could minus this dog for babbling that didn't know him and if u did you still couldn't be sure. My point is with the current rule you may go on 5 casts and be judged on this 5 different ways. Put a shorter time limit on dogs struck in the minute so it can atleast give everyone the same method to judge this by.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

Bowling41762 are you talking about instead of a min.grace period make it 30 seconds. That would be a good idea I think. That would make them have to put them on the card sooner. Then they may shut upand go a couple hundred yards before they get on a coon and strike honest. That would be easier for me to determine them to be babbling.

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Clay County-ky
Posts: 971

I really don't care what they make it but just make some sort of sepperate time to open on dogs struck in the minute. I mean how can anyone say 100% a dog is babbling when he opens a couple times 30 seconds after Beeing cut. We may think he is but can we say 100% he's babbling. No. We just need something in there to make all cast judge the same.

Simple insert a rule saying if a dog is struck within the minute that dog must open once every minute until called treed or until all dogs are struck in then his time will go to the 8 minute rule with the rest. This would make people think twice bout striking in the minute.

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
Frank is right but you should have minused him for barking on the creek! I hope when the auto. strike dogs from that other kc come over to hunt the slam events that some one steps up and minuses them every time. It doesnt matter if they bark every step they need minused.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Just go back to the way it was, NO grace period. Three barks and the dog is struck.

We had way, way, way less babblers then cause after the second time they went to the truck.

It was easy to catch them cause you could still shine your light on them and see they were just babbling.

Problem solved.

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