Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3147

But,Todd in my earlier post if me and one more turn loose in a nite hunt with the intention to fight we are guilty of fighting,yet covered since we are in a hunting condition. Let them catch on to that and we are screwed. Just CHANGE FOUR LEGGED ANIMAL TO DOG. WHY THE HECK IS THAT SO HARD TO DO? It's because they don't want hog bays,bear bays,etc. and if you are caught at them you are fighting and all the hounds you raise are now fighters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
No. Because that is not putting two animals together to cause them to fight.

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Ky
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quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
If a dog catches a coon on the ground wouldn't that be hunting, trialing or training?

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Ky
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quote:

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Originally posted by bobbycagle1
But causing a big boar coon to come down the tree and fighting my dogs could be looked at that way??? Right??? I mean you're causing them to come together and fight!!!

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Location: Kentucky
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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
But,Todd in my earlier post if me and one more turn loose in a nite hunt with the intention to fight we are guilty of fighting,yet covered since we are in a hunting condition. Let them catch on to that and we are screwed. Just CHANGE FOUR LEGGED ANIMAL TO DOG. WHY THE HECK IS THAT SO HARD TO DO? It's because they don't want hog bays,bear bays,etc. and if you are caught at them you are fighting and all the hounds you raise are now fighters.

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Location: Lockridge Iowa
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quote:

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Originally posted by rough country
What if a dog fights breaks out in a UKC cast we all don't like it but it happens both dogs are scratched and it is filed in UKC records can the hsus not come into the office and pull these record and both party's be charged with a felony plus can the land owner because he let the cast hunt on his property may sound like a dumb question but one I was wondering about

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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
Would this be an example....

Dog A and B Treed. Dog A gets rowdy,dog B gets rowdy. Owner of dog A says dog B can't move his,dog B says no dog A can't handle me. We have now just went from hunting to placing them in a fight situation. And,we have all heard fellows say this. So,then it goes from a licensed nite hunt to a licensed nite fight. Sounds far fetched but I bet a Perry Mason could argue it and get a bleeding heart jury and you are guilty.

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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
Heck,if I was gonna fight one that's what I would do. Go to a sanctioned hunt and see how many mine could whip. You could take bets on whether any dog could stay or whether you would be caught and scratched or not. I honestly think a nite hunt could save the dog fights. You would just have to fight hounds. Think about it,registered dog,at a licensed event,acting under hunting conditions. I am safe all the way around.

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The proposed addition is very scary, this is copied from first post:

The proposed bill would add the following wording to expand the class of animal fighters who can be charged:

"Any person who knowingly owns, possesses, keeps, breeds, trains, sells, or otherwise transfers a four-legged animal for the purpose of that animal or its offspring being used to fight for pleasure or profit is guilty of cruelty to animals in the first degree."


The scary part is "or its offspring" this is very broad, and all encompassing. A breeder of ANY dog known for dog aggression will have to be very very careful who they sell to or stop breeding all together. If someone they sell to uses dog for fighting, then breeder can and will be brought into this no matter how innocent. Because they should have known, since they sold a dog that is traditionally or was breed in the first place to be a fighter.

Think this is far fetch, think again. The knowingly part encompasses what a reasonable person should have known.

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That's right. Raise a pit and sale it. You could be screwed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
If a dog catches a coon on the ground wouldn't that be hunting, trialing or training?

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Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
But,Todd in my earlier post if me and one more turn loose in a nite hunt with the intention to fight we are guilty of fighting,yet covered since we are in a hunting condition. Let them catch on to that and we are screwed. Just CHANGE FOUR LEGGED ANIMAL TO DOG. WHY THE HECK IS THAT SO HARD TO DO? It's because they don't want hog bays,bear bays,etc. and if you are caught at them you are fighting and all the hounds you raise are now fighters.

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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I have to sign off and go. I will be back Monday morning.

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Location: Mountains of NC
Posts: 1255

Can some of you pull and post your states bill?

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We are not all states. What's good for one is not good for all. We know that.

Todd ,

Above all I know you are a hunter. I know you are not a supporter of groups that would jeopardize our rights. I feel you are caught in a bad spot. You will take some heat in your position for this,but I honestly feel you see the hunters side. I only hope you can do enough damage control to put the fire out on this one,because it is starting to blaze. A simple letter like the other club sent in,or for goodness sake take it off the UKC sight and cut affiliation.

To change wording takes lobbyist as we all know. I feel UKC has enough power and contacts to lobby for an amendment.

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Location: Lockridge Iowa
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quote:

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Originally posted by S Chisnell
525.125 Cruelty to animals in the first degree.
(1) The following persons are guilty of cruelty to animals in the first degree
whenever a four-legged animal is caused to fight for pleasure or profit:

The proposed bill would add the following wording to expand the class of animal fighters who can be charged:

"Any person who knowingly owns, possesses, keeps, breeds, trains, sells, or otherwise transfers a four-legged animal for the purpose of that animal or its offspring being used to fight for pleasure or profit is guilty of cruelty to animals in the first degree."

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And my Pyrenees will fight for profit,because I have it in there guarding my flock. It's how the words are used. In today's time we must be so careful of wording.

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NC has a wildlife hunting or providing food exemption in theirs.

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Here is what I found in missouri .
FIGHTING
MO. ANN. STAT. § 578.025 (2013). Dogs, fighting, training to fight or injuring for amusement or gain, penalty—spectator, penalty.
1. Any person who:
(1) Owns, possesses, keeps, or trains any dog, with the intent that such dog shall be engaged in an exhibition of fighting with another dog;
(2) For amusement or gain, causes any dog to fight with another dog, or causes any dogs to injure each other; or
(3) Permits any act as described in subdivision (1) or (2) of this subsection to be done on any premises under his charge or control, or aids or abets any such act is guilty of a class D felony.
2. Any person who is knowingly present, as a spectator, at any place, building, or structure where preparations are being made for an exhibition of the fighting of dogs, with the intent to be present at such preparations, or is knowingly present at such exhibition or at any other fighting or injuring as described in subdivision (2) of subsection 1 of this section, with the intent to be present at such exhibition, fighting, or injuring is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
3. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit:
(1) The use of dogs in the management of livestock by the owner of such livestock or his employees or agents or other persons in lawful custody of such livestock;
(2) The use of dogs in hunting; or
(3) The training of dogs or the use of equipment in the training of dogs for any purpose not prohibited by law.

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This is not a good situation at all. To me, this will be an inroad into our free casting rights eventually.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
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quote:

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Originally posted by C Zink
Here is what I found in missouri .
FIGHTING
MO. ANN. STAT. § 578.025 (2013). Dogs, fighting, training to fight or injuring for amusement or gain, penalty—spectator, penalty.
1. Any person who:
(1) Owns, possesses, keeps, or trains any dog, with the intent that such dog shall be engaged in an exhibition of fighting with another dog;
(2) For amusement or gain, causes any dog to fight with another dog, or causes any dogs to injure each other; or
(3) Permits any act as described in subdivision (1) or (2) of this subsection to be done on any premises under his charge or control, or aids or abets any such act is guilty of a class D felony.
2. Any person who is knowingly present, as a spectator, at any place, building, or structure where preparations are being made for an exhibition of the fighting of dogs, with the intent to be present at such preparations, or is knowingly present at such exhibition or at any other fighting or injuring as described in subdivision (2) of subsection 1 of this section, with the intent to be present at such exhibition, fighting, or injuring is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
3. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit:
(1) The use of dogs in the management of livestock by the owner of such livestock or his employees or agents or other persons in lawful custody of such livestock;
(2) The use of dogs in hunting; or
(3) The training of dogs or the use of equipment in the training of dogs for any purpose not prohibited by law.

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I'm sure they already know how it reads .

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Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

quote:

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Originally posted by C Zink
Here is what I found in missouri .
FIGHTING
MO. ANN. STAT. § 578.025 (2013). Dogs, fighting, training to fight or injuring for amusement or gain, penalty—spectator, penalty.
1. Any person who:
(1) Owns, possesses, keeps, or trains any dog, with the intent that such dog shall be engaged in an exhibition of fighting with another dog;
(2) For amusement or gain, causes any dog to fight with another dog, or causes any dogs to injure each other; or
(3) Permits any act as described in subdivision (1) or (2) of this subsection to be done on any premises under his charge or control, or aids or abets any such act is guilty of a class D felony.
2. Any person who is knowingly present, as a spectator, at any place, building, or structure where preparations are being made for an exhibition of the fighting of dogs, with the intent to be present at such preparations, or is knowingly present at such exhibition or at any other fighting or injuring as described in subdivision (2) of subsection 1 of this section, with the intent to be present at such exhibition, fighting, or injuring is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
3. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit:
(1) The use of dogs in the management of livestock by the owner of such livestock or his employees or agents or other persons in lawful custody of such livestock;
(2) The use of dogs in hunting; or
(3) The training of dogs or the use of equipment in the training of dogs for any purpose not prohibited by law.

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Location: Kentucky
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The Missouri bill sure don't say four legged animal. Guys we don't want ky saying four legged animal.

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Our bill is dog specific.

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